PC Oscilloscope recommendations?

sda

Active Member
I don't want to spend a fortune (hopefully less than $250) and don't need a whole lot of features either. Just want to see logic and voltage levels on stuff I'm playing with.

Some I've found are:

"PC USB Oscilloscope DiSco made, calibrated and tested in Russia."
http://www.hobbylab.us/default.aspx
$169, but can't tell if it comes with probes.
http://microcontrollershop.com/product_inf...roducts_id=1996
$229 for a complete kit

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=300169017233
about $200 with shipping, complete kit

BitScope Pocket Analyzer ( BS50U )
http://www.bitscope.net/store/?p=view&i=item+4
$425 is a little more that I want to spend, and it doesn't come with probes

Any comments on the above, recommendations on others, or general recommendations on specs will be appreciated.
 
I don't want to spend a fortune (hopefully less than $250) and don't need a whole lot of features either. Just want to see logic and voltage levels on stuff I'm playing with.

Some I've found are:

"PC USB Oscilloscope DiSco made, calibrated and tested in Russia."
http://www.hobbylab.us/default.aspx
$169, but can't tell if it comes with probes.
http://microcontrollershop.com/product_inf...roducts_id=1996
$229 for a complete kit

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=300169017233
about $200 with shipping, complete kit

BitScope Pocket Analyzer ( BS50U )
http://www.bitscope.net/store/?p=view&i=item+4
$425 is a little more that I want to spend, and it doesn't come with probes

Any comments on the above, recommendations on others, or general recommendations on specs will be appreciated.


Ok, I'll bite ;-) What are you "playing with"? What you need depends on what you want to measure.

Analyzing X-10 and INSTEON signals requires viewing signal in the range of 120khz/131.5khz. And one typically wants two channels (AC line and isolated X10/INSTEON component) which effectively means >600k samples/second.

The first scope you cite has inadequate bandwidth for X10. The third scope only has one input as best I can determine which would eliminate it from consideration (for me) for almost everything.

The second scope has adequate bandwidth and two channels. Like most of the inexpensive digital scopes it has 8-bit ADC (one part in 256) which you may find adequate. One potential drawback with this and all other PC-based scopes is that they are entriely dependent on the software. I've had three SW based scopes and find them all frustrating in one way or another.

Have you considered and rejected a good used _analog_ scope? There are plenty of good ones to be had on eBay for less than your target of $250.

... Marc
 
Ok, I'll bite ;-) What are you "playing with"? What you need depends on what you want to measure.
Right now, basic homebrew circuits. I've been playing with a electric meter reader (its in the 'lm311' thread last month).

metergraph.jpg

It was working pretty good on a protoboard then I soldered it up last week. It still works, but now I get multiple counts as if the laser lit up the photoresistor two or three times. Can't see anything with the LED indicator or a DVM. If I had a scope, I could compare the voltage level returned from the photoresistor and the output of the LM311 to determine where the problem is. If the input voltage was jumping across the threshold I could look there, or if the input voltage looks right and the LM311 was triggering multiple times maybe I burned it up. And I'd like to be able to record something like that and play it back for analysis. That's my immediate need and seems like a good excuse to get a scope.

Analyzing X-10 and INSTEON signals requires viewing signal in the range of 120khz/131.5khz. And one typically wants two channels (AC line and isolated X10/INSTEON component) which effectively means >600k samples/second.
The first scope you cite has inadequate bandwidth for X10.

The first scope (hobbylab)
- number of channels 2
- sample rate 100 Hz...200 KHz
- memory depth
buffer reading: 1126 sample/channel (1 channel), 563 sample/channel (2 channels)
pipe reading: 64K sample/channel (1 or 2 channels)
- input voltage -20...+20 V (hardware 2 sub-band)
- input impedance 1 MOm
- ADC capacity 10 bits

The third scope only has one input as best I can determine which would eliminate it from consideration (for me) for almost everything.

The third scope (ebay) says it has 2 channels, and it does have CH1 and CH2 on the box.
Max Sample Rate: 100MS/s
Bandwidth: 40MHz
Buffer Size: 32K Samples
Channels: 2
Voltage Range: 10mV, 20mV, 50mV, 100mV,200mV, 500mV, 1V, 2V, 5V
Resolution: 8bit

Is that 100 million samples/sec? That's a big jump from 200Khz. Or are they measuring the same thing using different scales and if so how do you compare hz to samples/sec?

The second scope has adequate bandwidth and two channels. Like most of the inexpensive digital scopes it has 8-bit ADC (one part in 256) which you may find adequate.

The second scope, the POscope, says it has a 10-bit ADC. It has about the same specs as the first scope.
http://microcontrollershop.com/product_inf...roducts_id=1996
Number of channels: 2
Sample rate: 100 Hz to 200 kHz
Buffer reading: 1126 samples/channel (1 channel), 563 samples/channel (2 channels)
Pipe reading: 64k samples/channel (1 or 2 channels)
Input voltage: -20 to +20 V (hardware 2 sub-band)
ADC capacity: 10 bits

One potential drawback with this and all other PC-based scopes is that they are entriely dependent on the software. I've had three SW based scopes and find them all frustrating in one way or another.
Please elaborate. Was it with the user interface, performance, ??

The 4th scope, the bitscope, the expensive one, only has 1 channel.

Have you considered and rejected a good used _analog_ scope? There are plenty of good ones to be had on eBay for less than your target of $250.
Not entirely. But I don't need another piece of equipment sitting around that will only get occassional use. Then there's the "good used" factor and how do you know for sure? How many "as is" scopes do I need to buy to find a good one?
 
Analyzing X-10 and INSTEON signals requires viewing signal in the range of 120khz/131.5khz. And one typically wants two channels (AC line and isolated X10/INSTEON component) which effectively means >600k samples/second.
The first scope you cite has inadequate bandwidth for X10.

The first scope (hobbylab)
- number of channels 2
- sample rate 100 Hz...200 KHz
- memory depth
buffer reading: 1126 sample/channel (1 channel), 563 sample/channel (2 channels)
pipe reading: 64K sample/channel (1 or 2 channels)
- input voltage -20...+20 V (hardware 2 sub-band)
- input impedance 1 MOm
- ADC capacity 10 bits

Right. A sample frequency greater than 2X signal frequency (the actual value dependis on slope of low-pass filter) is needed per channel. So this scope has inadequate bandwidth for even one channel of 120khz (X-10) or 131.5 khz (INSTEON). This comment also pertains to the second scope.

The third scope only has one input as best I can determine which would eliminate it from consideration (for me) for almost everything.

The third scope (ebay) says it has 2 channels, and it does have CH1 and CH2 on the box.
Max Sample Rate: 100MS/s
Bandwidth: 40MHz
Buffer Size: 32K Samples
Channels: 2
Voltage Range: 10mV, 20mV, 50mV, 100mV,200mV, 500mV, 1V, 2V, 5V
Resolution: 8bit

Is that 100 million samples/sec? That's a big jump from 200Khz. Or are they measuring the same thing using different scales and if so how do you compare hz to samples/sec?
Right. What was I looking at? Obviously not even the picture ;-) Yes that 100 million samples per second compared to 200 thousand samples for the first two scopes. I'd guess that the first two scopes are themselves built around PIC or AVR microcontrollers with ~20mhz clocks. It is a truism that the tools (instruments) used to design and build other tools (instruments) need to be faster/more accurate/more stable than what they are used to build.
The second scope has adequate bandwidth and two channels. Like most of the inexpensive digital scopes it has 8-bit ADC (one part in 256) which you may find adequate.

The second scope, the POscope, says it has a 10-bit ADC. It has about the same specs as the first scope.
http://microcontrollershop.com/product_inf...roducts_id=1996
Number of channels: 2
Sample rate: 100 Hz to 200 kHz
Buffer reading: 1126 samples/channel (1 channel), 563 samples/channel (2 channels)
Pipe reading: 64k samples/channel (1 or 2 channels)
Input voltage: -20 to +20 V (hardware 2 sub-band)
ADC capacity: 10 bits

One potential drawback with this and all other PC-based scopes is that they are entriely dependent on the software. I've had three SW based scopes and find them all frustrating in one way or another.
Please elaborate. Was it with the user interface, performance, ??
A couple of examples:

The software for the Velleman scope I have uses a fixed, not-expandable 640x480 GUI. Nothing can be done to increase the size of the trace which is 1 pixel/bit (= 256 bits=256 pixels). This is fine and dandy on a 640x480 or 800x600 monitor, but can be a nuisance at 1600x1200.

My Exacq 40mhz PCI-card scope has four BNC input channels. But the supplied software can only use two channels, and one can't run two copies of the software! It comes with National Instruments (www.ni.com ) drivers, so one could presumably make/use a four-channel Labview Virtual Instrument (VI), but a current copy of Labview costs several times what the scope did ...
The 4th scope, the bitscope, the expensive one, only has 1 channel.

Ahh.. so my problem was confusion, not outright fabrication ;-)
Have you considered and rejected a good used _analog_ scope? There are plenty of good ones to be had on eBay for less than your target of $250.
Not entirely. But I don't need another piece of equipment sitting around that will only get occassional use. Then there's the "good used" factor and how do you know for sure? How many "as is" scopes do I need to buy to find a good one?

Dunno. As you imply, "AS-IS" often is synonymous with "broken". But do note that are some eBayer sellers provide guaranties/warranties. In particular, there's a ex-Tectronix guy that seems to be knowledgeable and explicit. And there are buying skills/tactics that increase to odds of success. Another problem is that cheap, fast, analog scopes are big and heavy. So they susceptible to damage in shipment and shipping costs are non-trivial. That said, I only had to buy one inexpensive one to get a 4-channel 400mhz Tectronix that works perfectly. This is way too much scope for most purposes but is good enough to get entirely ' out of the way' when looking at current 'fast' MCU signals. Look for a scope that is in newish or in excellent clean condition implying little use, quiz the seller by email until you are satisfied --or don't bid-- and insist on adequate packing. I usually try to avoid the evasive sellers (but sometimes the clueless mis-spellers provide the best bargains ;-)

...Marc
 
Just a followup on this.

I ended up getting an EasySync DS1M12 Stingray. This is a USB scope, about 5"x4"x1", USB powered, 12bit, 1m S/s native, dual channel + func gen.

They've got a funky jave based website so can't get a direct link to the product page.
http://www.easysync-ltd.com/ -> USB Instruments -> PC Oscilloscopes scroll down.

There was a mixup with my order so after a couple of weeks went by and no product I called them about it. They're in Oregon and they speak English! They figured out what went wrong and took care of it right away.

Maybe someday I'll get a Tek, but this takes care of my hobby needs for now.
 
I ended up getting an EasySync DS1M12 Stingray. This is a USB scope, about 5"x4"x1", USB powered, 12bit, 1m S/s native, dual channel + func gen.

Maybe someday I'll get a Tek, but this takes care of my hobby needs for now.

Are you still happy with your selection?

They've got a funky jave based website so can't get a direct link to the product page.
http://www.easysync-ltd.com/ -> USB Instruments -> PC Oscilloscopes scroll down.

Links are http://www.easysync-ltd.com/index.html?lan...target=d16.html
and http://www.usb-instruments.com/pop_ds1m12.html
 
Are you still happy with your selection?

Yes. A few months ago I installed the software on my laptop and was able to go out into the garage and work on a project. That was handy. Haven't used it a whole lot lately because "other stuff" has priority.
 
Rise, rise dead thread!!
 
Anyone else using a PC scope?  I'm debating the purchase of a Pico Scope to better debug what's being sent between some HA devices.  
 
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