Piezo Screamers if there are pets?

DotNetDog

Active Member
I'm planning on installing an Elk M1G in a new home and I'm in the pre-wire planning phase. I was considering adding a couple of piezo screamers but then I thought about pets. We have dogs and I would think that the screamers going off (while we're away) would be potentially harmful to the dogs.

I realize that I could always wire for them but just not connect them for now. Anyone have thoughts on this?

By the way, one of the dogs is a boxer and I'm impressed at her fearlessness. She's a good protection dog. A bit small but very strong.
 
Not to specifically single you out, but people put too much trust in their dogs. Unless the dog has been breed and trained as a security dog (which would make the dog NOT a family dog), then dogs will be quickly neutralized. Most dogs are quite happy to see people, even strangers - even if they have a menacing bark most are completely harmless and robbers know it. If not, a person that has cased your house will simply bring a big steak or something else that the dog will want. Open the door, let the dog get a good whiff of it, and throw it out the door (or something similar).
 
My cats at my old place would literally run into the walls and windows trying to get away from the alarm when it went off, and would be freaked out for days afterwards.

And, unless your dog has had protection training, don't count on her protecting the place when you're gone. Her fearlessness could be nervous aggression or any number of other things. A good swift kick to the side of the head will send most dogs running, no matter how fierce they seem. Boxers make good protection dogs, but you should absolutely never count on her to actually BE protection unless she's had the training for it. And not just sport dog protection training, but real protection training where the dog is stressed and put in a position where it thinks it is fighting for its life. Plus, if you don't train food refusal, that dog is dead if someone comes along to rob your place and knows you have a dog, or a jogger that hates dogs decides to drop some hamburger laced with rat poison in your yard one early morning.

Dogs are an awesome deterrent. But when it comes down to it, the only ones you can rely on are the ones that are trained and tested. I've seen what mine can do, and I'm comfortable with him in his protection capabilities. But he's also had nearly 2 years of training.
 
I'm gonna dissent a bit here. I view my dogs as a critical aspect of our overall security. I have a Chihuahua (yup) and a mongrel that looks to be a retriever/spaniel mix. The Chihuahua (Goliath) obviously won't engage in conflict but he is quick as hell to determine if someone's lurking or entered our yard. Thankfully, he only makes a racket when he thinks there's trouble. He's an audible component. The rescued mutt (Shadow)is fearless, tough as nails and has twice sent an "intruder" (both times were my brother, who's a brawler, barging in unannounced) running back outside with blood streaming from torn up legs. Neither has a minute of training (I haven't even taught them to sit on command). I won't leave guests alone with my kids and Shadow. He is VERY protective of my three girls and won't hesitate to f^*k someone up if he feels that they're threat to 'em.
 
We have cats and Moose piezos.....lots of them (both piezos and cats).

What I did was:
1) Limit the amount of time that the INTERNAL sirens scream (say 5 minutes).
2) I keep the outside piezos on longer. Also,
3) There is one area of the house (master closet) that the cats rapidly can get into where the sirens are significanly lower (because I didn't place sirens near there).

The varmets will/have quickly learned where to go and what to do if the alarm sounds (which it does NOT do often).....falses need to be stamped out.
 
Hmmm...I had to go back and re-read my original post. I did not intend to suggest that our dog would serve as the interior protection. Instead, I was asking about whether or not the sound from several piezo screamers could harm the dogs hearing after several minutes.

Having dogs is definitely educational in terms of understanding what they can truely do or not. I have no doubt in my own abilities to disable pretty much any dog rather quickly so that's not my concern here.

Piezos are painfully loud. At the very least, I would think that I should carefully consider the placement of them so that our dogs can excape the noise (to a degree).
 
I'm gonna dissent a bit here. I view my dogs as a critical aspect of our overall security. I have a Chihuahua (yup) and a mongrel that looks to be a retriever/spaniel mix. The Chihuahua (Goliath) obviously won't engage in conflict but he is quick as hell to determine if someone's lurking or entered our yard. Thankfully, he only makes a racket when he thinks there's trouble. He's an audible component. The rescued mutt (Shadow)is fearless, tough as nails and has twice sent an "intruder" (both times were my brother, who's a brawler, barging in unannounced) running back outside with blood streaming from torn up legs. Neither has a minute of training (I haven't even taught them to sit on command). I won't leave guests alone with my kids and Shadow. He is VERY protective of my three girls and won't hesitate to f^*k someone up if he feels that they're threat to 'em.

That still doesn't mean he'll stick around to protect anyone if someone inflicts a serious amount of pain on him. He's probably never been kicked in the head (at least let's hope not). Most dogs will go into avoidance when placed in a new/stressful/uncomfortable position, which is different for every dog. It could be that a new guest that they don't know sends them running (which is definitely NOT your dog), or it could be something as extreme as a boot to the head. A dog with a strong fight drive will come back twice as hard, pain and stress escalate his willingness to stay and fight. This is probably more dependent on genetics than it is on training, which is why you see certain types of dogs used for police/military/protection work.

I'm not saying your dog won't stay around and protect you, but unless he's been trained to BE in that sort of situation, you certainly cannot count on it when things get hairy. Realistically, if he bites a burglar in the leg when he's climbing through the window, the burglar is probably not going to stick around and fight the dog. Only crazy people stay and attempt to fight a dog, but those are the ones you need to worry about. Additionally, the dog needs to be taught how to bite. In a bad situation, you don't want him doing quick bites at someone's leg, you want a good full bite on the arm to subdue the bad guy.

Also, if you haven't done any training as you've said, then you need to. If the dog is so quick to bite, and has bitten your brother, then he's a lawsuit waiting to happen. If he bites a neighbor kid for some reason, then you'll be lucky if you don't lose your house over it. I know a couple of people whose dog bit someone for no apparent reason, trust me, you do NOT want that to happen. My brother had like 200 stitches in his face from a Yellow Lab when he was 4, and my wife had over 100 in her leg from a german shepherd. It can happen in 1/4 second, before you even have time to realize what just happened. Those were both *ONE* quick bite, not multiple bites. It's just like having a gun in your house, it's there when you need it, but you don't leave it loaded sitting on the floor in the living room with the kid's toys. Obedience isn't just about teaching to dog to sit and stay, it's about teaching the dog the proper way to behave without you having to tell him what to do all the time, and also that it's not okay for him to go off like a loaded gun when someone walks through the front door. Not only would you feel absolutely terrible if the dog bit a friend or neighbor, but you'd probably lose everything. Even if they didn't sue, insurance companies WILL sue to recoup certain costs.

Sorry to get all lecture-like towards the end. I've had, and been around german shepherds my whole life, many of them protection trained. And, I've seen firsthand what happens when a dog bites, and what sort of behavior/training (or lack thereof) leads up to it. If you have a dog that will bite, which yours will, then he needs to get some training ASAP to help mitigate the risk of an accident.
 
Brother, I can't argue any of that. I'm an animal guy and have also had dogs all my life. These two I have now have suffered from comin' along as our kids were being born, building two business', etc. It's actually not fair to them that they haven't had better training and I should probably use this as a wake up call to get better with them both. There have been studies one on both animals and humans that demonstrably shown that we thrive when we're presented with boundaries and flounder when we're not. The funny thing is that while I spoil the ever livin' hell out of them (I can't help it, they're so cute), I need to also treat them like the tools they are. Tools require proper maintenance and I've shirked that responsibility with these guys. Thanks for the lecture, signal15, it's appreciated.
 
Brother, I can't argue any of that. I'm an animal guy and have also had dogs all my life. These two I have now have suffered from comin' along as our kids were being born, building two business', etc. It's actually not fair to them that they haven't had better training and I should probably use this as a wake up call to get better with them both. There have been studies one on both animals and humans that demonstrably shown that we thrive when we're presented with boundaries and flounder when we're not. The funny thing is that while I spoil the ever livin' hell out of them (I can't help it, they're so cute), I need to also treat them like the tools they are. Tools require proper maintenance and I've shirked that responsibility with these guys. Thanks for the lecture, signal15, it's appreciated.

I was going to PM you, but I decided to post this to the list, as I know that there are others on here with dogs and I thought the info might be useful. The great thing is that the saying, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" is completely false. It might take you longer to break him of old habits, but those habits can be broken with consistency and repetition.

If you do decide to hire someone to help with training, PM me. I don't have any names to give you, but I can tell you what to look for (and more importantly, what to avoid). It's not rocket science, but some of these places are a total waste of money and time. And, probably the hardest part about training, is getting the rest of your family on board. If you're trying to change behavior and habits, and the kids or the wife never reinforce any of it, then you have a big problem. If you take the dog in for training, the other people handling the dog should also go so they know how to reinforce what you are trying to teach.
 
So, will the screamers harm an animals hearing? I have a cat and I don't want to deafen her, just the crooks.

Matt
 
So, will the screamers harm an animals hearing? I have a cat and I don't want to deafen her, just the crooks.

Matt

I can't imagine it would be good for them. Mine FREAKED when the alarm siren went off, and I'm sure some of it was because it hurt. But, they always ran and hid in a room far away from the siren under a bed, so if it's uncomfortable for them, they'll probably do the same. As long as you're not setting them off every day, it's probably not going to do any damage. But, I am not a cat ear expert. I doubt anyone will be able to give you a definitive answer.
 
So, will the screamers harm an animals hearing? I have a cat and I don't want to deafen her, just the crooks.

Matt

I can't imagine it would be good for them. Mine FREAKED when the alarm siren went off, and I'm sure some of it was because it hurt. But, they always ran and hid in a room far away from the siren under a bed, so if it's uncomfortable for them, they'll probably do the same. As long as you're not setting them off every day, it's probably not going to do any damage. But, I am not a cat ear expert. I doubt anyone will be able to give you a definitive answer.


Ahhhh...back on track... I just emailed GE Security this question. I'll post what (if) they response.
 
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