Pre-Wire Cost - Daily Rate for Helper

[DotNetDog]

I want to hire someone to help me pre-wire my house (under construction). I have WAY too many drops to pay per drop; instead, I would like to pay on a daily rate. Do you think an experienced low voltage guy would work for a daily rate and if so, how much?

BTW: I am about to start asking around locally so we'll see what kind of response I get.

 

[Neurorad]

'Experienced' will be expensive, maybe you could find one on his day off.

Call some local HA/CI companies and alarm installer companies. Ask the owners if any of their guys want to make some extra money nights/weekends. The owners would also know how to contact some of their installers who they had to fire in the last year or 2 - that might be your best bet. Stress 'experienced', if you want to pay extra.

Craigslist might be an option, but you may be screwed if you get a dud, if you're on a tight schedule.

 

[programmergeek]

Where are you located?

 

[pete_c]

When we built in FL we paid a "package" price for the alarm prewiring. 6 telephone / 6 RG6 runs were included. The only issue I had was were the alarm company wanted to end the runs to and where I wanted them to end up. The telephone guy also wanted to run the telephone jacks in series and I made him home run each individual run. It around the year 2000 or so and the pre-wiring was listed on the build sheet at around $3500. (but that was what the contractor had put down). None the less when I asked about adding LV it came out to around $50-60 a drop.

I had a short window of time between electrical wiring and putting up the walls so we ended up doing it ourselves in about 2-3 days (full days) and wired up the LV. I didn't put in type of conduits for the LV but rather just mud plates with instructions to the drywallers. We (wife and I) ran 16/2&16/4 speaker wire (4 bedrooms, study, kitchen, living room, Lanai & dining room), 2-3 RG6 per room, 2-3 Cat5E to each room, 4 exterior RG6 on one exterior side of the house (for satellite) and 4 RG6 and Cat5E on the other exterior side of the house for OTA/Cable. We also pre-wired the media center location with many home runs from the specific location, plus 7.1 sound, Cat5e, etc. This section was built into the wall separated into three cavities. Here I added 3" PVC tubes between each cavity in addition to the LV wiring (plus 2 double gang electrical boxes in each cavity). All the rooms have 9 ft ceilings. The only thing that I didn't do in FL was run for CCTV. Very low WAF as it was in the 90's and very humid those days.

I helped a friend building his home (3 years now) do the same in about 2 days. We used his son to climb up on some rafters. (we also ran 22/4 & 22/2 for alarm wiring). One of the concerns with him was that he didn't want to drill any holes for alarm wiring near any of his door frames (told him he could still do it later on). About 3 months ago helped a neighbor in FL redo her alarm wiring/install an OPII. I noticed that the original alarm installer had created loops for zones in the attic which made it a bit difficult to reverse engineer. So as mentioned earlier an experience LV installer / plus your own knowledge on your preferences helps (reading the wiring guides on this forum). Today for my finished home running one Cat5e from the central wiring location to a bedroom on the second floor can take up to 3 hours which would be worth a $50-60 drop charge but probably would be an hourly and closer to $150 for one drop.

 

[Kevin L]

When I was building my home in FL, I was still in NY when it became time to wire. I used a pro my builder uses and he charged $80 per hour. This was in 2007. He took care of all the non-security wiring (the alarm company did them) and I have a 12-zone whole-house audio with speakers and keypads, three touchscreen locations, all the keypads for the Centralite lighting, five locations for TV with RG6, HDMI, and component wiring to each location, the four cable-run for the sat dish, and the run for the HD OTA antenna (also installed the dish and OTA antenna), and phone (CAT3) and network (CAT6) to about ten locations. All runs terminated to a central AV/Network closet with cans and racks. He installed all the termination hardware and mounted all speakers, including home theater, and tested all runs.

A lot of the runs were tough, even with walls open. One and one-half story home without basement. Biggest problem was getting all the cable past the microlam for the second floor, since you can't drill through it. All total, I believe I paid about $2,000 for the labor. Took him about 25 hours in the middle of summer in Southwest Florida. Tough condition.

If I was down there, I might have done it myself. But seeing all the work it took, I'm kind of glad I paid for it.

Good luck,

Kevin

 

[Herdfan]

You might try someplace like Labor Ready. You pay a fixed hourly rate and you can specify the type of worker. So if you need someone experienced in electrical, you can get it. Keep them only as long as you need them and if the first guy doesn't work out, get another one the next time.

 

[DotNetDog]

I'm on the north side of Atlanta. My builder charged me 6K for the "basic" pre-wire package. However, I want to run a LOT more wire and it's going to probably be more than double. He hasn't given me the final price yet but based on yesterday's comments from him I am expecting a very high price.

Apparently he normally charge $75 per drop but since I have so many drops he is planning on coming up with a different price plan. Anyway, I can reallocate the 6K to other things (lighting, cabinets, etc...) so I may just do the LV pre-wire myself.

I should hear the final price tomorrow or Friday. If you guys hear a loud scream from the south that will be me.

 

[Neurorad]

Some builders, I've read, won't let the homeowner run LV wires themselves - they want/need the extra profit. They hire the pro installer, and take a cut.

This should have been discussed before signing the contract, obviously. Do you have any leverage, or at least a good relationship? Maybe he'd agree to it if you buy the basic package, and then you add more after. Or, pay him a fee to allow you to run the cable.

Hiring a pro, and then volunteering labor, may work out well. Call a bunch of CI company owners to find out which ones will work with you (after clearing it with your builder).

 

[DotNetDog]

Some builders, I've read, won't let the homeowner run LV wires themselves - they want/need the extra profit. They hire the pro installer, and take a cut.

This should have been discussed before signing the contract, obviously. Do you have any leverage, or at least a good relationship? Maybe he'd agree to it if you buy the basic package, and then you add more after. Or, pay him a fee to allow you to run the cable.

Hiring a pro, and then volunteering labor, may work out well. Call a bunch of CI company owners to find out which ones will work with you (after clearing it with your builder).

Actually, while I am the homeowner, I am also the general contractor of record. Our builder works for me.

Before we signed the contract I told them that I've run wire in the past and that I would want a LOT of LV wire run. I was clear that I could do it myself. My builder "encouraged" me to consider their guy when the time came. Well....the time is here and they (the LV guy and the builder) are acting shocked at the amount of wire that I want. They are saying how expensive it will be.

Anyway, I'm meeting my builder today for lunch to discuss this. I let him know that I absolutely will not sacrifice any more on the wire but that I won't pay 15K+ either. We'll see what he proposes.

By the way, I now have two different friends that have run wire before and will work for beer. OK, I'll pay them $$$ too.

 

[personalt]

If you can do it yourself then do it... Unless you spend the money on a real pro they are not going to give advise they are just a wire puller..

My father in law is an electrican and when I started talking to him about LV he didnt really have any experience with TV drops etc.. High tech for average electrican is
* A 120 outlet high on the for tv power (but no LV wires)
* CAT5 home runs for all telephone drops now rather then daisey chain phone wire..

I spent ~$1K on material, even if you spend $2K you will be ahead of the game a lot of money. I would bet you will come in much less...

** Find out from framing contractor what size holes and at what spacing you can use in your joists. If you are using engineered joists that info is available online. Most joists can easily support 2" hole but as you get bigger you need to start to be careful. I think the I-joists I used wanted them at least 2*diameter appart so I did 2" holes were 4" apart if I needed more then one hole. For I-Joists holes always in center from top to bottom. Find a chart for your ijoist to see what sizes you can drill.***

!!!NEVER USE THE SAME HOLE AS YOUR 120V for a LV wire!! LV/HV wires can cross but cant be strapped together or go throgh the same hole.

As I mentioned in your other thread.. I highly recommend Carlon Resi-Gard or similar low voltage tube runs from each TV drop to the attic or unfished basment area. I would run all your planned cables outside of that and leave the tube for future proofing.

*Dont forget if using something like an elk alarm, need extra wire at the keypad drops for speaker

*If you plan to do whole house audio, all the speaker wire for the room should go past the lv box that is the controller for that room. Run 2 cat5s for these drops.. one for possible intercom controls and one for the whole house audio controls. That was my own f'up.. I ran one cat5 to each drop and my wife decided she wanted a russound intercomm. That intercom can use the whole house audio speakers(it disconnects them from the amp). I was then short a cat5 forthe whole house audio..

 

[Neurorad]

install the conduit empty, it's for later additions

I bought most of my cables from Monoprice, great resource

I've read that Deep Surplus may be another good online place to buy cable

local electric supply stores' prices may be competitive with online, when shipping is added

rent the right angle hammer drills

you might go through several bits, of various sizes

take a million pictures before the drywall goes up

have you considered water sensors, and an electronic valve on the water main? that's on my list of things to do - under sinks, behind toilets, behind fridge/ice maker, laundry room, etc

label each cable immediately

don't leave cables where people can step on them

gentle bends for ethernet cables, no sharp turns

ideally, add connectors to the ethernet cables and test them before the drywall goes up - pipe dream, but had to be said

any plans for spray-in insulation? additional steps needed to protect the LV cables

basement to attic conduit would be useful for retrofitting cables, down the road

the front door may need some extra cables

any plans for cameras? motion sensors?

Since you're prob doing this yourself, maybe you could hire a local CI to help plan/design the install, if you're really short on time.

 

[DotNetDog]

install the conduit empty, it's for later additions

I bought most of my cables from Monoprice, great resource

I've read that Deep Surplus may be another good online place to buy cable

local electric supply stores' prices may be competitive with online, when shipping is added

rent the right angle hammer drills

you might go through several bits, of various sizes

take a million pictures before the drywall goes up

have you considered water sensors, and an electronic valve on the water main? that's on my list of things to do - under sinks, behind toilets, behind fridge/ice maker, laundry room, etc

label each cable immediately

don't leave cables where people can step on them

gentle bends for ethernet cables, no sharp turns

ideally, add connectors to the ethernet cables and test them before the drywall goes up - pipe dream, but had to be said

any plans for spray-in insulation? additional steps needed to protect the LV cables

basement to attic conduit would be useful for retrofitting cables, down the road

the front door may need some extra cables

any plans for cameras? motion sensors?

Since you're prob doing this yourself, maybe you could hire a local CI to help plan/design the install, if you're really short on time.

I have plans for at least 2 conduits (empty) from the homerun room up to the attic.

I've checked MonoPrice. I have a local distributor that has decent prices but local..so no shipping.

I'll check with HomeDepot/Lowes on renting tools.

Pictures...planned as well as video.

I have runs for water sensors. They go anywhere a water source exists (toilets, laundry, sinks, etc...). Automated Outlet has a simple water detector and they're cheap.

I got a wire labeling guide from someone here. I'll need to buy a label maker...there's a good thread on here about them.

Goal #1 - get wires run. Goal #2 - add connectors.

Spray insulation on the ceiling but not in walls.

Front door cables? You mean for automatic locks? Hmmm... I'll add that.

Cameras and motions/occupancy sensors are accounted for.


Now for an update: I calculated the cost of wire. I'm getting close to $6K just in wire. I met my builder for lunch today and he is working to lower the cost. I should know by Monday what the builder will charge me. I have a ceiling price in mind...I'll have to wait to see what he can do.

 

[apostolakisl]

First off, Neurorad has a lot of great stuff to say.

I love conduit! I ran very little wire and lots of conduit except for the alarm wires. Every drop is a conduit to the attic, I left them all empty until after I moved in. I also put in the central vac system and had extra pipe which made for great conduit where I might put lots of wires. I also put conduit to the outside of the house in two locations.

A commercial 90 degree drill is very helpful. Be careful, they can break your arm (lots of torque, slow rpm). It doesn't need to be a hammer drill unless you are going through cement. I had a 2.5 inch and 1 inch drill bit and they didn't dull enough to need replacement even with hitting a bunch of nails. I also had a 3/8 spade bit, 12 inch long and burned those guys up (I think like 4 of them). That is what I used for most of the alarm wires as the magnetic reeds fit in 3/8.

You should probably do the wiring yourself (or at least be present) if you are a geek like us which you probably are or you wouldn't be on this website. Us geeks will want things done a specific way because we will probably want things that few rational people would ever want in their house. So, you best be the boss on the job. Here is who helped me.

1) father-in-law
2) father
2) wife (most challenging)
3) day labor

The day labor around here want about $12/hour. They speak Spanish pretty much only, but you point and they do. With the help of two of them you can get a lot done in 12 hours. Make sure you keep them fed/hydrated and don't let them leave to buy the food, send your wife or whatever, you will get a lot more work done.

Other things that can make things go faster... scafolding on wheels. Just one deck high so you can quickly and easily work in the ceiling.

Have a plan. Go through the house with your boxes and put all of them in first. Also a bright red sharpee for writing on the studs/floor/whatever your intentions for all areas. Having this stuff in place first means more productive time when you have your help.

 

[DotNetDog]

...
You should probably do the wiring yourself (or at least be present) if you are a geek like us which you probably are or you wouldn't be on this website. Us geeks will want things done a specific way because we will probably want things that few rational people would ever want in their house....

This is SOOO funny. I had lunch with my builder today and he said "I bet you were into this stuff when you were a kid". So true!!! I remember taking apart my parents clock radio when I was 7 years old. I almost got it back together, too!

 

[personalt]

$6K in wire? I would love to see what you have planed. what would be really cool is if you could stick that on a google docs spreadsheet and share it. Maybe you just have a ton of wire but seems like there should be some way to find some savings

I would go to ebay for a drill.. something like this. This is the electricians drill, it might cost you $60 for the day, for a little over a $100 you can own a used one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Milwaukee-1-2-Right-An...=item439da59e73

Drill bits should be self feeding.. these are the best and well worth the money for drilling through top and bottom plate..
http://www.cpomilwaukee.com/milwaukee-48-2...ts-and-bit-sets

Something smaller for drilling joists but still self tapping unless you have all i-joists.

Dont discount some cheap labor for drilling holes. Assuming floors are unfiished some cheap labor and a rolling step up scaffold we be helpful