Pre-Wire Cost - Daily Rate for Helper

[Neurorad]

I suggest 22/4 for the water sensors. GRI brand sensors seem to be the most popular here on CT, used with your alarm panel.

Any plans for irrigation? An ethernet cable run to the irrigation controller location may be useful. This may be a future project 5-10 years down the road. Some people hardwire the irrigation valves directly to the wiring closet, connected to the Elk - prob simpler to figure out than 232/serial control.

 

[apostolakisl]

$6K in wire? I would love to see what you have planed. what would be really cool is if you could stick that on a google docs spreadsheet and share it. Maybe you just have a ton of wire but seems like there should be some way to find some savings

I would go to ebay for a drill.. something like this. This is the electricians drill, it might cost you $60 for the day, for a little over a $100 you can own a used one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Milwaukee-1-2-Right-An...=item439da59e73

Drill bits should be self feeding.. these are the best and well worth the money for drilling through top and bottom plate..
http://www.cpomilwaukee.com/milwaukee-48-2...ts-and-bit-sets

Something smaller for drilling joists but still self tapping unless you have all i-joists.

Dont discount some cheap labor for drilling holes. Assuming floors are unfiished some cheap labor and a rolling step up scaffold we be helpful

That is the exact same drill and drill bits I used (borrowed the drill from a friend but agree that buying for that price is totally worth it). They work great. You don't have to push, they pull themselves through. I also used a DeWalt 18v cordless (their pro model) and it worked great too. I drilled 2.5 in holes by the dozen through double top plates on one battery charge. Still the 90 degree beast is necessary at times so you just have to drag the extension cord around even though it would seem to be so old school. With the big self feeding bits, put the drill on slow rpm, they won't self feed at high rpm (not a problem with the angle drill as it only goes slow).

 

[dpilati]

I was offered help at $50 an hour by someone who worked at this full-time. He had a good reference but in the end, I decided to just do it myself. If you do your research, I'm not sure that you need skilled help.

No doubt, they offer some tricks but in the end, I didn't think it was worth $50.

I think I had about a week and that was no problem but I was not going as crazy as some people do.

As an aside and not meant as an insult for LV installers, but this skill is not really worth $50. I can get an electrician on the side for that around here. In fact, I had my basement wired for $350 and it took a lot longer than 7 hours - it was more like 10-12 hours.

 

[Steve]

As an aside and not meant as an insult for LV installers, but this skill is not really worth $50. I can get an electrician on the side for that around here. In fact, I had my basement wired for $350 and it took a lot longer than 7 hours - it was more like 10-12 hours.

Well, the $ is all relative and based on skill but I think it is important to separate a typical electrician from a LV installer. They are completely different specialties each requiring different (sometimes similar) skill sets and tools. I would not want an electrician terminating and dressing all my LV wire on panels/blocks, etc. Most are not used to the fine wire, maintaining twists, bends, etc. I also wouldn't want a LV pro wiring my breaker panel. While anyone with 2 hands can run a wire from point A to point B, its the neatness, proper lengths and conditions and terminations/certifications that make or break the job.

As with anything else in life if YOU have the knowledge and skill to do the work then there is no value to you in even paying $1/hr for a pro, but if otoh you have no idea what you are doing and not capable of doing the work yourself, then $50/hr is very reasonable for a professional trying to make a living.

 

[Kevin L]

Well said, Steve. Not to mention that getting an electrician "on the side" generally means he's working off the books, is not covered by insurance, and you're left with little recourse if there's a problem. I paid $80 an hour for the LV pro that did my home, and though it seemed high, he did the job far quicker than I could have, and the job is done correctly.

Kevin

As an aside and not meant as an insult for LV installers, but this skill is not really worth $50. I can get an electrician on the side for that around here. In fact, I had my basement wired for $350 and it took a lot longer than 7 hours - it was more like 10-12 hours.

Well, the $ is all relative and based on skill but I think it is important to separate a typical electrician from a LV installer. They are completely different specialties each requiring different (sometimes similar) skill sets and tools. I would not want an electrician terminating and dressing all my LV wire on panels/blocks, etc. Most are not used to the fine wire, maintaining twists, bends, etc. I also wouldn't want a LV pro wiring my breaker panel. While anyone with 2 hands can run a wire from point A to point B, its the neatness, proper lengths and conditions and terminations/certifications that make or break the job.

As with anything else in life if YOU have the knowledge and skill to do the work then there is no value to you in even paying $1/hr for a pro, but if otoh you have no idea what you are doing and not capable of doing the work yourself, then $50/hr is very reasonable for a professional trying to make a living.

 

[apostolakisl]

Having skilled guys would definitely be helpful during the finish-out, but wasteful during the rough-in. Pretty much any able-bodied person can do it. The only trick to the rough-in is that you planned for your needs properly. Also, it helps to have a good labeling system in place. Having plenty of extra wire at start and finish line is very important, but not really a skill.

Also, about the $6k in wires. Wow. I am going to take a guess that you have wired for every "just in case" possibility there ever was. I would encourage you to skip the non-alarm wiring altogether and go with conduit. No worries about omitting something or a new technology. And you only pull the wiring that you actually need and you do it after the house is built so the chance of other subs damaging wires is no longer an issue. It will save you a ton of money and give you massive flexibility in the future. For example, I put Low Voltage conduit drops into every room of my house and 2 or 3 in a few. At this point I have used about 1/3 of them and then typically only one wire. My total wiring expenditure on my 6000sf house that has a ton of automation is less than $500 at this point with half of that being the alarm wiring. The conduit is dirt cheap if you buy the grey stuff at HD. It also will turn into "flex" if you warm it up a bit with a propane torch. Also it has smooth walls so wires push through it easily.

 

[AceCannon]

I called some local alarm companies and got some numbers for local guys. These companies were less than interested in my business, anyway, when I told them I wanted specific equipment and was not interested in a service contract.

So I ended up with two guys working for $50 an hour each. They knew each other and worked well together. I gave them a typed-out list of what to run to each room. I also showed up and ran as many runs as I could (and still work my real job) - but they were drastically more efficient than I was and did tons more runs than I did, with better technique. The job was finished much more quickly than I had anticipated. Of course I spent many many hours later terminating cat5e and 22/4 in my closet and elsewhere.

It has been a year and things have worked well so far.

 

[pete_c]

You mentioned hiring skilled labor North of Atlanta.

In the 1990's I had the opportunity to manage/subcontract some basic IT wiring endeavors for Ford in the startup for the Taurus build (around 1995) (Atlanta and Chicago). It wasn't anything major but would need about a weeks worth of time and some LV skills. My choices somewhat limited then were the existing local electrical unions. What I found was in Atlanta while not skilled in the art of LV wiring the local contracted folks / bid contract was fair and they did exactly what I specified for a reasonable cost. While not being able to do any hands on I did check the details of what had been done and it was done to my specifications correctly.

In FL (South of Tampa) when trying to get bids (late 1990's-early 2000's) for LV work for my new home it seemed to be an issue of cost/complexity where as I would pay more and get much less - also noticed lack of familiarity with methodologies of LV wiring then - therefore the DIY.

In the Chicago area it was much more difficult for the Ford LV endeavor. I put the project out for bids and picked a company from Indiana to do the LV work to my specifications. Not a week passed by after acceptance of the bid that the local Union decided that I couldn't go outside of the area to hire for LV wiring unless I had a local representative "supervising" the installation. This made the work prohibitively expensive (and it was relatively simple). I ended up with 1 semi skilled in LV wire puller that understood my requests and two "helpers" that really didn't do anything but stand and watch the first guy pull cable. I ended up with the same completion of my endeavor in Chicago as in Atlanta but 3-4 times the cost (in the 1990's). I also had similiar issues doing some side consulting/work for some downtown Chicago offices in the late 1990's. In the middle 2000's worked on an endeavor to provide WLAN access for a building (4 stories - > 2000 folks) - work went out to bid and bid was accepted but could only be done under direct supervision of competing locally contracted LV entities. (making it somewhat cost prohibitive). A similiar endeavor (but for 6000 folks) in San Francisco provided me with good skilled folks doing exactly what was requested but at a very high cost.

Another commercial LV endeavor was done in TX a couple of years ago (gas and oil). The LV was reasonable in costs but needed much more supervison because of the lack of skilled LV installers; there like FL I noticed some high cost bids for less quality of work - I had also done some "as built" LV company validations (and wondered about some of the logic utilized / costs justifications).

Today things have changed a bit but demographics remain similiar.

I guess what I am saying is that you should have an easy time to find some skilled LV folks/helpers where you are located in ATL that will give you some good work at a fair price.

 

[heffneil]

I have a really good relationship with my electrician down here in SW Florida. I have given him so much business he charged me $35 an hour for a helper who is very capable and moves quickly.

I would also suggest running extra wires for cameras, wires for intercom (I don't know how big your house is but we use the intercom for monitoring the kids rooms overnight), and wires to the doorbell and for a calling station at the front door. Also if you have a back patio I would suggest an intercom station back there. Also consider whole home audio although I don't know how how appropriate it is anymore because of things like sonos.

I don't know where you are in the country or what you have for AC and stuff but run wires to everything. Run wires to your thermostats, run wires to the pans for your AC units and your hot water heaters for water sensors. Dishwasher, fridge if it has an ice maker, washer. If I were going to build a new house I Would do that everywhere!

In my house I Have run thousands of feet of wire and I bought it second hand! I have been going through boxes and boxes of wire.

Good luck! I can't remember where else I would put wires but if you think it might work do it!

Neil

 

[apostolakisl]

You mentioned hiring skilled labor North of Atlanta.

In the 1990's I had the opportunity to manage/subcontract some basic IT wiring endeavors for Ford in the startup for the Taurus build (around 1995) (Atlanta and Chicago). It wasn't anything major but would need about a weeks worth of time and some LV skills. My choices somewhat limited then were the existing local electrical unions. What I found was in Atlanta while not skilled in the art of LV wiring the local contracted folks / bid contract was fair and they did exactly what I specified for a reasonable cost. While not being able to do any hands on I did check the details of what had been done and it was done to my specifications correctly.

In FL (South of Tampa) when trying to get bids (late 1990's-early 2000's) for LV work for my new home it seemed to be an issue of cost/complexity where as I would pay more and get much less - also noticed lack of familiarity with methodologies of LV wiring then - therefore the DIY.

In the Chicago area it was much more difficult for the Ford LV endeavor. I put the project out for bids and picked a company from Indiana to do the LV work to my specifications. Not a week passed by after acceptance of the bid that the local Union decided that I couldn't go outside of the area to hire for LV wiring unless I had a local representative "supervising" the installation. This made the work prohibitively expensive (and it was relatively simple). I ended up with 1 semi skilled in LV wire puller that understood my requests and two "helpers" that really didn't do anything but stand and watch the first guy pull cable. I ended up with the same completion of my endeavor in Chicago as in Atlanta but 3-4 times the cost (in the 1990's). I also had similiar issues doing some side consulting/work for some downtown Chicago offices in the late 1990's. In the middle 2000's worked on an endeavor to provide WLAN access for a building (4 stories - > 2000 folks) - work went out to bid and bid was accepted but could only be done under direct supervision of competing locally contracted LV entities. (making it somewhat cost prohibitive). A similiar endeavor (but for 6000 folks) in San Francisco provided me with good skilled folks doing exactly what was requested but at a very high cost.

Another commercial LV endeavor was done in TX a couple of years ago (gas and oil). The LV was reasonable in costs but needed much more supervison because of the lack of skilled LV installers; there like FL I noticed some high cost bids for less quality of work - I had also done some "as built" LV company validations (and wondered about some of the logic utilized / costs justifications).

Today things have changed a bit but demographics remain similiar.

I guess what I am saying is that you should have an easy time to find some skilled LV folks/helpers where you are located in ATL that will give you some good work at a fair price.

Aren't the Chicago unions peachy. I just saw a news article that Chicago was losing convention business because of this rediculous stuff. If you wanted to exhibit at a convention in the McCormick center you needed to hire a union carpenter to set up your display (even if it was just a table and some signs), a union electrician to plug in your computer, and a union whatever else to do whatever else. What a joke! Seriously, they wouldn't let you run an extension cord without an electrician.

 

[programmergeek]

There is not enought information here but you can get anyone to run the cables as long as they are decent, you don't want anyone that will pull to hard and break wires, the job goes faster but it doesn't do you any good once a wall is closed. Now on the other side as stated above termating and hooking up is a much more delicate job and requires some skill. Also will the person be bringing there own tools or using yours. I had to use a friends drill once and his bits I was helping him out I sware the job took me at least 4 times as long. Nothing like good drill bits and real tools. But that is also an expense for me, drills break and get dull, I go through lables in my rhyno shrink wrap labler etc. If you are goingt o do it yourself also ck waht the local inspector wants. Most of the time now they want you to fill all the holes with a fire proof materal. It can save you time and money later.