Recommended IR automation for CQC

[Mike]

Addressing the connection to the Xantech system issue...

I distribute IR using a wired Xantech system (wired for 3 zones, but the max I've used is 2 and 1 is disabled right now (intentionally)). I have HomeSeer and a USB-UIRT connected to the system.

Initially, I was planning on using an optoisolator system to connect the USB-UIRT to the Xantech system. I ended up doing something different - partly because I had the parts on hand and partly because I wanted to maintain easy manual control (using hand held remotes).

I use standard Xantech IR receivers (291-10 Hidden Links) at various locations all on zone 1 (I had one on zone 2 also, but I took it to use on zone 1. That's why zone 2 is disabled). One of these is near the computer. I use two standard "mouse" emitters plugged into the USB-UIRT and attached to the front of the 291-10s. These essentially become optoisolators. This setup is more expensive, but it allows me to use a standard remote in the same room (without going through the computer) - I don't always need everything automated .

I see where you are going with that. I also went with the zoned system as I was trying to put equipment in the basement, and share it across the house. While ideally I would be able to serially control everything, I don't see myself there for quite some time (TV's don't have that for example, not even the 61" I got, although I need to double check that).

That approach would be hard as I use an eye for each zone in different rooms. I've never thought about it, but can I hook up multiple eyes to a zone? It would add $50 or so per zone (an eye in the real room, and one in the basement for each zone). I'll have to see what options are available. FrankMC posted one, but it looked more like an example to build your own (and I did not look around enough to find the details or not). Curious what that would cost as it may be cleaner (not sure if there is any 'loss' when running the output through another eye).

The card would also work well as it seems I could plug in two if I needed. This would complement the Xantech setup, should I ever outgrow it since there is a six zone expander which would bring the total to 9 zones. Two cards would give me eight zones which I suspect will be fine. It will take me awhile to finish equiping some of the other rooms anyway.

And to Dean's point, it seems like it would be cheaper. I'll take another look at what GC is providing as they had some other functions other than IR, but I don't think I needed any of that which would make the comparison cleaner. Also would be nice to avoid yet another box.

 

[smee]

I've never thought about it, but can I hook up multiple eyes to a zone? It would add $50 or so per zone (an eye in the real room, and one in the basement for each zone). I'll have to see what options are available. FrankMC posted one, but it looked more like an example to build your own (and I did not look around enough to find the details or not). Curious what that would cost as it may be cleaner (not sure if there is any 'loss' when running the output through another eye).

My zone 1 has (right now):

1) 2 x 291-10 hidden links - one next to the computer, one in the bedroom.
2) 2 x 789-44 connecting blocks - one in living room, one in bedroom
3) numerous emitters in the living room and bedroom
4) one power supply next to computer

I run all three zones through cat5 - 1 pair is power, the other 3 pairs are signal/ground for the 3 zones. Devices are controlled in the living room and bedroom. They are controlled from the computer room and bedroom. I have also had emitters connected in the computer room at the same time as the rest, but they are no longer needed or connected.

I don't think there are problems with running multiple "eyes" or emitter locations unless you run out of power (or have "commands" being sent from multiple "eyes" at the same time).

 

[Dean Roddey]

OK, here's the response on the R2DI card:

"It only outputs 5V at 25mA, but the typical “12V†signaling used in automation systems usually works on signals from 12V down to something pretty low, like 2-3V or so, or just enough to turn on the led in the opto coupler. So, there’s a good chance it will work, but not guaranteed."

 

[Mike]

Dean/Smee:

Thank you. I have been meaning to lay out how I would have this work and what it might look like with the R2DI solution as well as something like Global Cache, I have just been busy so haven't gotten to it. I figured that would flesh this out a bit and make everything quite clear. I also wanted to make sure I clearly thought out how the zoning would work, although for direct control of centrally placed hardware I don't need to go through the xantech and can blast directly at the specific equipment I suppose.

I'll draw it up.

I was thinking about it later and I realized I have seen IR wired that way (with multiple eyes/etc), but good to know you are not having problems.

 

[Mike]

I'm still trying to visualize how I want this to work, but something occurred to me that makes me want to lean towards global cache:

1. My main equipment will be in one room (this allows both to work as the computer would be near the equipment). I realized I don't need to use my zoned system as I want to send signals to the IR controlled equipment.
2. If I have equipment in another room (say an MCE Extender or Sage Extender, or even a non-serial controlled TV (probably bad example), then I could get another GC box and add it to 'the network'.

I need to lay it out further, but this was a reason to avoid having two different technologies.

The four output card could be used to drive different zones, but if CQC is in the mix, I only send the command to the device when it needs it. Since I don't need to go through a zone input, I don't need the $50 xantech to global cache adapter either.

 

[Dean Roddey]

You can go about it two different basic ways. One is the GC-100 sort of scheme, where you use the network to remote the control interface. The other is to keep it in the closet and use a dedicated IR distribution system. Either will work, it just depends on what's most practical for you. The second scheme is probably more reliable overall (with centralized maintenance), but for many folks the former is far more practical since they already have network access while they'd have to pull new wires for an IR distribution system. And, as you say, the former scheme probably also allows for finer grained control with far fewer wires.

 

[Mike]

Part of my thought process was flexibility. Theoretically I could use a card for the main room, and then GC gear elsewhere if required, but the global cache actually gives additional capabilities, such as sensors and serial inputs.

EDIT: I was surprised at the price list for the sensors and each one is $45-$70. At those prices I would be more inclined to replace my equipment with RS-232 capable equipment than using those (noting that it will be a bigger jump than $70 to do so however). I remember Smarthome having similar sensors years back (I have a few on my shelf actually that I never used) that hooked up to a digital bob or something like that and the price was nowhere near that. I suppose it is good to have the option for these, the prices just seem a bit high for what this is.

It also (although I'm not sure this is a big deal) gives you the capability to have the computer in one location and the ir control in another. At the moment this is actually a plus for me, since the controlling computer is in my office upstairs, and the equipment will be in the basement.

Has anyone looked at Sage automation for extenders? I need to look around, if I go down that path, this might be the example where a GC box gets put in the local area (and would be another review point if I wanted to use the internal card in the future).

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Mike,

Are you saying that the Problincs will work with GC? I haven't tried that yet.

 

[Dean Roddey]

Part of my thought process was flexibility. Theoretically I could use a card for the main room, and then GC gear elsewhere if required, but the global cache actually gives additional capabilities, such as sensors and serial inputs.

Keep in mind that we don't currently support the serial ports. They are pretty limited and cannot be configured via the client software (such as CQC), so we've so far not supported them. We do support the contact closures and the IR stuff. We'll add support for the serial ports at some point. They should have long ago done what most of their competitors do and provide a driver that creates a virtual COM port so that any software can use their ports without change.

Are you saying that the Problincs will work with GC? I haven't tried that yet.

I was told that they need a resistor put in them to make them really work correctly. Don't know what type of resistor, I can't remember.

 

[Mike]

Mike,

Are you saying that the Problincs will work with GC? I haven't tried that yet.

Sorry I missed that, I was not saying that. I was comparing the sensors and thought they were pricing theirs a little excessively.

I decided to try a global cache unit (although I hadn't seen Dean's comment before doing that, as that was a big benefit in addition to it being location neutral).

 

[Mike]

I haven't hooked it up yet, but recieved the global cache unit. Surprisingly enough it came with a screw missing from it (the black screws on each corner on the sides, one is missing out of the four on one side).

The unit appears very well made. The only thing that looks out of place is the Global Cache sticker they put on the front. I'm sure it must have been a cost consideration but the case is the brushed aluminum (black) and looks very nice.

One thing I realized later was that you can build an IP based IR network using these and the IR recievers they have. It will be more expensive than a Xantech setup, but it sounds like a nice approach. Of course you have an extra box at each location though. I already have a Xantech setup so I won't be trying this, but it is a nice concept.