Replace electrical box

[potts.mike]

I'm not sure if this us the right section. Please move it if there is a more appropriate place.

I have been installing zeave switches throughout my house and have found that the box in the bathroom is to shallow to hold both switches and the wire nuts and everything.

I am considering replacin the old box with a deeper old work one but am curious what code issues there are. Does an old work j box need to be next to the stud or can it be between studs? It seems to me the hardest part will be getting the old box out. Does anyone have any advice before I tackle this?

 

[electron]

There are a couple of threads about this, but this one has a lot of good ideas.

 

[Neurorad]

Options for getting the old box out:

Cut it up with a Dremmel
Cut it up with a large clippers/nippers
Cut it up with a drywall saw
Sawzall to nails and/or box
Pry bar and just let it fall into the bottom of the stud cavity

I haven't been able to just pull them out through the existing drywall hole.

Old Work boxes don't have to be fastened to a stud. But if you need to, a couple screws can be used through the side of an Old Work box into an adjacent stud.

 

[potts.mike]

I think I'm going to give the sawzall route a short. The other obstacle I ran into is that there is another box exactly opposite this one so I'm not even sure a deeper box will fit.

 

[Monk]

You could consider a different Z-Wave switch that does not use wirenuts - intsead wire inserts direct into rear of switch.

 

[potts.mike]

Do you have one in mind?

 

[Neurorad]

I recently bought one of these Stanley brand keyhole saws:

Came with a fine-toothed blade, for metal. Might work well for nails.

 

[Odeen]

Do you have one in mind?

Couple of things:
Most wooden wall studs are 2x4 - that is 2" across and 4" deep (in practice, about 1.5" by 3.5" deep). Add 1/2" of drywall, and you have 4" of depth available.
"Deep" wall boxes are a little shallower than 4", giving you plenty of room in a typical wall.

After you cut out the old wall box, you can try using both a "deep" old work box, and a shallow one. For instance, Home Depot has a Carlon B114RB (2.75" deep) and a B120R at 3.75". If the deep box won't fit, you can still use the regular one. Multi gang wall boxes are also available in different depths.

Lastly, Leviton Vizia RF and Vizia RF+ Z-wave dimmers and switches don't use wire nuts. You can hook the wire around the screws on the sides of the switch, or simply insert STRAIGHT wire into holes in the back of the switch and tighten the screws.

Enjoy your project. I used to be afraid of working with electricity (a healthy fear instilled by my parents ) and now, as a new homeowner, I shut off my breakers and go to town.

 

[potts.mike]

I may have solved my problem. I found these: http://www.kyledesigns.com/product/SPKX-DEEP-2DECORAS/Deep-Beveled-Double-GFCI-Decora-Rocker-Switch-Wall-Plate-Covers.html
They are Switch covers that are extra deep that may allow the switches to fit. Only problem is they are 22$ and I am not sure what the finish is like. Anyone know if a local big box would carry something like this?

 

[Neurorad]

Don't deep old work boxes cost <5$? What am I missing here?

 

[tmbrown97]

neuro - it sounds like there are two boxes back to back on opposite sides of the wall... so there isn't much depth to work with.

As far as getting the old box out - what I've done in the past (after reading the article that Dan linked above) - is expand the hole to the size of a 2-gang old work box, then you have plenty of room to pry the old box out and pull it out of the hole as you work the wires out of the box.

I just crammed a pry bar next to the box and worked it off the stud - since I had plenty of room to the side to wiggle/work it out... although the sawzall idea isn't bad.

 

[Monk]

Do you have one in mind?

http://store.homeseer.com/store/VRI06-1LX---Z-Wave-600-Watt-2-Wire-Dimmer-Leviton-Vizia-RF-P574C64.aspx

Sure - These do not use wirenuts. They are still "deeper" than a normal manual switch.

 

[Neurorad]

Ah, thanks Monk. Make the hole bigger first. Where were you before I finished replacing/moving all my in-wall VCs? :nutz:

I saw that he said they were back to back, but I doubt it. None of my switches are back to back, with standard 2 x 4 walls. I don't think it's possible without those ultra-shallow j-boxes that I've seen at HD.

 

[RAM]

I saw that he said they were back to back, but I doubt it. None of my switches are back to back, with standard 2 x 4 walls. I don't think it's possible without those ultra-shallow j-boxes that I've seen at HD.

He did say that this was in a bathroom. They may have a 2x6 wall for the depth to get the main sewer stack pipe completely inside the wall.

 

[potts.mike]

I haven't actually measured. I just eyed it and it seemed like they were back to back. I am going to see if this deeper switch cover works before tearing into the wall.The extra cost will more than be made up in time savings.