RS-485 Terminal Block -- Warped

[GraysonPeddie]

Hi. Does Elk provide a replacement part for my RS-485 terminal block (that connects from the keypad and M1XSP?

I once had a lot of trouble connecting both the M1XSP and my keypad, since I had to get the wires all fixed up and I get so tired of wires that get untwisted...

I wish I have Honeywell Vista 20P, but I love the rule-based engine and I will regret having Elk M1 Gold if I go with Vista 20P, which makes it easier for me to connect keypads and expanders than with Elk M1 Gold. For that, I won't have to worry about warping. With Insteon-compatible kit, out-of-the-box home automation is the reason why I went with Elk M1 Gold, so with that kind of money, I expect all the parts to be made of high-quality -- including the terminal block, but then I kind of get the feeling that I shouldn't expect the terminal blocks to be of high-quality, with respect to warping, which can't be easily fixed. So, I may have to get a clamp to hold the terminal block in position while I sonnect the two twisted pairs of wires (both red, for example) together.

Anyway, I really liked all the products Elk has to offer, so my previous paragraph is not meant to make Elk feel bad, so I'll continue to buy Elk products from online retailers such as SmartHome and Automated Outlet.

So then, my Elk is off until I can get a replacement part, if possible.

 

[Photon]

If the terminal blocks was defective, contact your supplier and explain. If you are responsible for the damage, maybe your supplier can sell you just the one block. Otherwise Automated Outlet can sell you a set of connectors.

http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php...at=0&page=3

As an aside, these are the highest quality terminal blocks I've ever used.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I believe he was talking abou the white connector on the back of the keypad, but still, man, how are these getting warped?

 

[Steve]

Grayson,

With all due respect I have a hard time understanding some of your posts and this last one was, well frankly, rude. First, this makes hardly any logical sense to me:

I once had a lot of trouble connecting both the M1XSP and my keypad, since I had to get the wires all fixed up and I get so tired of wires that get untwisted...

The rest of your post was a mixed rambling of complaining about a sub standard part and wishing you had a Vista 20P. First I would really like to know how you think connecting a Vista 20 is much easier than an Elk, but most importantly, giving you the benefit of the doubt that the M1 had a defective part and you did not destroy it yourself, the tone you take is very counterproductive to getting you help. A simple call to the vendor you bought it from should easily score you a replacement part if warranted. Assuming the part was bad, well, stuff like this happens, it does not matter what company, how much you paid, etc. But I can tell you I have seen some of the best quality and service from places like AO and Elk Systems, so if it was indeed a bad part, threating in a public forum instead of going to your vendor for help should not be your first course of action. Otoh, if you got overzealous and actually damaged this part yourself, then a post like this becomes that much worse and if I were the vendor, I would be inclined to tell you to please go buy an Ademco system and complain to them when you break it.

In either case, I don't think this was an appropriate post and as a 'tip', it will not help you in future dealings with places like AO and Elk (and with your fellow Cocooners that are here to help). Please, be reasonable and everything will work out fine.

 

[GraysonPeddie]

If the terminal blocks was defective, contact your supplier and explain. If you are responsible for the damage, maybe your supplier can sell you just the one block. Otherwise Automated Outlet can sell you a set of connectors.

http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php...at=0&page=3

As an aside, these are the highest quality terminal blocks I've ever used.

Yes. My terminal block is defective (I damaged it in process, even when using a very small flat screwdriver; it happens when I connect/disconnect a lot). All other terminal blocks (2 terminal blocks for 8 zones each, terminal block for power, phone, terminal blocks for three outputs, and that's about it). Thanks for the link.

And sorry guys I didn't mean to complain about quality. I really expected the terminal blocks to not wear out, that's all.

Anyway, do you guys know what is the easiest way to connect my M1XSP and my keypad to the terminal block without a databus hub?

It's been working fine before, but occasionally last Sunday night, I've been getting lost communication errors from my keypad, even though I've connected both my M1XSP and my keypad properly, so then I had to disconnect, recut the cord coming from the keypad, cut the insulation, and connect back the wires to the databus terminal. I've been in a lot of stress/frustration when trying to hold the wire and the terminal block before I screw the terminal down just to lock the wire in place.

I believe he was talking abou the white connector on the back of the keypad, but still, man, how are these getting warped?

Nothing to do with the keypad.

 

[TonyNo]

That plug in your photo is a readily available part. You can also get that in screwless form, where there is a spring that holds the wires in place. Maybe that is a better version for you. If I knew the pitch, I could get you a few part numbers.

 

[Digger]

Terminal Blocks such as this are designed for one possibly two wires maximum. UL is currently changing their requirements in this industry to state that a terminal block can only have one conductor per terminal unless they evaluate it for more than one to minimize the problem stated in this thread of occasional lost communications.

Most installations that I have seen will pigtail off of a terminal block and connect multiple wires to the pigtail with a suitably sized wire nut or crimp connector. For this particular application I used the databuss retrofit module which worked out well.


I would imagine if you call ELK Tech support and explain the situation they will help you out. ELK supports their customer base very well.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Another helpfull hint is to use a really good screwdriver and proper fit for these terminal blocks. The best tool investment one can make is to get a set of these Wiha screwdrivers for use on terminal strips. These screwdrivers are worth every penny of their cost.

 

[TonyNo]

I second BSR's suggestion.

Another good way to get two wires per would be a dual-wire crimp ferrule...

Dual-Wire Ferrule at Allied Elec

 

[gatchel]

I have worked with these type of connectors for 10 years in security and access control systems. I have never ran into a warped connector. Usually just a missing terminal screw lost in shipping or from vibration.

Also, there is no comparison between a Vista 20P and an M1G. The Elk is way better in many ways. The Vista 20P only has room for 16 automation points, give me a break.

 

[GraysonPeddie]

I know about Vista 20P, but still, connecting wires to the control panel is a whole lot easier as I don't have to hold the terminal block while I connect the wires. Not even when using a clamp

 

[Spanky]

Grayson,
It appears from the picture that you have a broken end terminal on the terminal block. Those are Phoenix terminal blocks. The best money can buy!

We will be more than happy to get you another block.

One thing to keep in mind when removing the blocks is to rock them from side to side and pull up. Do not pull up from one end all at once. You could damage the terminal socket housing on the M1 board.

You do not appreciate unpluggable terminals until you have to remove and replace 50 connections.

 

[gatchel]

You do not appreciate unpluggable terminals until you have to remove and replace 50 connections.

Only one who has serviced many devices can truly appreciate how accurate that statement is.

 

[rfdesq]

You do not appreciate unpluggable terminals until you have to remove and replace 50 connections.

Only one who has serviced many devices can truly appreciate how accurate that statement is.

I keep extra sets of ELK terminal strips in stock. I appreciate the ability of pre-wiring the strips then mounting the control and plugging in the strips. Easy as pie.

 

[Steve]

I know about Vista 20P, but still, connecting wires to the control panel is a whole lot easier as I don't have to hold the terminal block while I connect the wires. Not even when using a clamp

So then simply don't remove the terminal block! Just keep the block on the controller and wire it there. I do that all the time for just a few wires. While it certainly is convenient, there is no rule that says you have to remove the block to wire it. Heck, there are people out there that don't even realize they are removable.