Simple UPS recommendation?

[beelzerob]

Heh..ya, I figured I wasn't the only one that has this same experience anytime I go to buy *anything*.

However, there is a pretty good argument for avoiding the very lowest model of any product you buy.

*sigh*

It'd be nice to wait for a decent price on the 550's, but I know I'm also risking the big shoulda every day I wait.

 

[etc6849]

This thread is making me wonder if I should get a UPS for my PJ? Usually when you turn it off, the fan will run for some time to help cool things down even after the bulb is off. A UPS would ensure the bulb always cools down assuming I have my HA system turn the PJ off on loss of utility power...

PS: I like the APC SmartUPS models cause they support a smart protocol that lets you grab parameters/status over an RS232 connector.

 

[Ira]

Don't max out the UPS. 550 sounds like it would be fine for you but 350 seems a bit low. The UPS does double-conversion (AC->DC->AC), so if you run it at a high level all of the time if/when it discharges it will have trouble charging back up.

Are you sure about these UPS's being double-conversion units? Most of the less expensive ones are offline/standby. The next step up is line interactive. For both of these technologies, when utility power is present, AC is not converted to DC and back to AC. It's hard to find "consumer versions" of true double conversion UPS's, and I've never seen any that small. They are also relatively expensive. I bought a couple of 1kVA double conversion UPS's about a year ago, and they were over $400 each on the 'net. The optional SNMP cards to put them on the LAN were over $200 each. Double conversion UPS's are probably overkill for most people, but it is probably the best technology available if you want to spend the money.

 

[KentDub]

Don't max out the UPS. 550 sounds like it would be fine for you but 350 seems a bit low. The UPS does double-conversion (AC->DC->AC), so if you run it at a high level all of the time if/when it discharges it will have trouble charging back up.

Are you sure about these UPS's being double-conversion units? Most of the less expensive ones are offline/standby. The next step up is line interactive. For both of these technologies, when utility power is present, AC is not converted to DC and back to AC. It's hard to find "consumer versions" of true double conversion UPS's, and I've never seen any that small. They are also relatively expensive. I bought a couple of 1kVA double conversion UPS's about a year ago, and they were over $400 each on the 'net. The optional SNMP cards to put them on the LAN were over $200 each. Double conversion UPS's are probably overkill for most people, but it is probably the best technology available if you want to spend the money.

No, I'm not sure -- and I think you are right, the lower end UPSs probebly arn't double conversion. My UPS is a 3500VA which I did spend quite a bit on, it will keep my whole rack on for about 90 minutes. Like some others, I would rather my equipment never shut down instead of a smaller UPS that attempts to do safe shutdowns (which don't always happen btw) on systems.

If your UPS dosn't do double conversion, it won't help you any with brownouts, only blackouts. What I might suggest is a Line Conditioner. This little (actually large) gizmo will bump up the volts at the expense of amps. It also does a lot of filtering to "clean" the power being delivered to equipment. Great for computers, monitors, or other sensitive electronics. I have two of these in addition to my UPS: http://www2.tripplite.com/en/products/mode...txtModelID=2832 (smaller version are avaliable for pretty cheap). I would seioursly consider something like this because brownouts can cause major damage to electronics. If you still need blackout protection, place the line conditioner before the UPS.

 

[KentDub]

Heh..ya, I figured I wasn't the only one that has this same experience anytime I go to buy *anything*.

However, there is a pretty good argument for avoiding the very lowest model of any product you buy.

+1, I'm the same way.... But then I sit back in comfort when I see other people having issues that I know my equipment/setup is protected against, or simply does/makes the job easier.

This thread is making me wonder if I should get a UPS for my PJ? Usually when you turn it off, the fan will run for some time to help cool things down even after the bulb is off. A UPS would ensure the bulb always cools down assuming I have my HA system turn the PJ off on loss of utility power...

PS: I like the APC SmartUPS models cause they support a smart protocol that lets you grab parameters/status over an RS232 connector.

Yes, it's a very good idea. As far as running out and spending lots of $$$ (projectors can draw a lot of juice), I'd see if you are prone to at least semi-frequent (>1/year) blackouts. You could compare the situation to a turbo'd engine that is simply shut off when you come off the freeway rather then letting it idle (the oil pump shuts off so no cooling)... Even if it dosn't break right then and there, you are reducing the life of the equipment.

 

[beelzerob]

Well, I almost had our "oh crap" moment a bit earlier than expected. Woke up to find the power had gone of during the night, and the kitchen PC wasn't responding. turns out the PC was on, but the USB hub the keyboard and mouse are connected to wasn't working, so I couldn't interact with the PC. Took some time to finally figure out that another USB hub in the chain needed to be rebooted...then everything worked. But I did managed to get a "Honey, did you buy those UPS's yet?" out of it, so overall worthwhile.

I also decided to confirm how much the DLP tv was using when on, and turns out it's 270 watts, not the 150 I thought. Good thing I checked.

 

[beelzerob]

I ended up getting the APC 550's, they were a decent deal at staples and I got 2 of them for just over 100 shipped. And they arrived the next day. That never happens.

The strangest part is that I actually went and hooked them up that night, instead of letting them sit languishing in boxes for weeks. And a good thing too, as we had a power outtage just yesterday. I checked the log, and it kept the WHS up as long as it could, and then had it shut down. I'm very pleased.

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[etc6849]

Two UPS's for one device? Did you daisey chain them? It seems you could do this to increase the length of time the load is supplied during an outage... Good idea!

 

[beelzerob]

Heh...now that's an interesting question, what affect daisy chaining has on UPS's....

But no, I got 2 because I had 2 specific devices in different parts of the house that needed them...our TV and our WHS machine. And I'm happy to say that since they've arrived we've had no less than 2 complete outages where they both did exactly what I needed them to do. I'm quite pleased.

 

[WayneW]

Two UPS's for one device? Did you daisey chain them? It seems you could do this to increase the length of time the load is supplied during an outage... Good idea!

Daisy chaining is not supported/encouraged by APC. I don't know about other brands. APC claims that the output of the first UPS will be rough enough that both UPSes will be running off battery, essentially just draining batteries in parallel for no gain. YMMV.

 

[etc6849]

Thanks for the info Wayne. I guess this makes some sense. I'm kind of surprised APC says this though; someday I'll have to do a few tests under load conditions to verify this. It's definitely not as efficient to daisy chain UPS's, but I at least thought it would work...

 

[Neurorad]

Do the UPSs beep or make annoying noises, with a blackout? Is this signal configurable?

I recall an IVB post where he detailed that the UPSs beeped every 15 minutes during the night until the equipment shut down.

 

[beelzerob]

Yes and yes, so far as I can tell. (for APC anyway)

The one connected to the TV will beep so long as something is still using the battery. Annoyingly, even if the TV is off, it still uses just enough power that the UPS will beep until I go shut the UPS off or the battery dies, or power comes back on.

The one connected to the WHS machine I installed the powerchute software, and in the software was an option to NOT beep...which is what I wanted because I just tell it to keep the machine alive as long as it can and then shut it down...no user intervention required. So far as I can tell then, I could just hook up the TV UPS to the PC with the powerchute software on it, configure it not to beep, and then take it back to the TV.....so far as I can tell, this should work. I'm too lazy to go try it, but no doubt the first time it wakes me up in the middle of the night I'll let you know if I fixed it.

And it's more like a beep every 30 seconds, not 15 minutes.

 

[pete_c]

I bought of these in a last couple of weeks.

Tripp Lite

Intially was going to utilize it for only one server but after playing with serial comm / application decided to move the UPS to the family room to cover LCD, etc).

The MS management interface is somewhat lacking (not MS centric but maybe better with Linux - wonder whose idea it was to write the entire interface in using Java then not support it) This alone would make the sale refurb price $42 (should be $29.99) and probably why they didn't sell too many of these UPS's new.

I have one MM PC there but its really never on so there will be no serial connections going to it.

Historically have a couple of APCs (which are decent) and no name generics (which are not decent).