Special Brultech ECM-1220.H offer to cocoontech members.

[Btech]

... not CQC specific at all ... your USB connection looks just a regular COMx ...

I don't mean to hijack this thread but can someone point me in the direction of a virtual serial port driver for USB? What I'm finding via Google doesn't fit the bill.

Hey there 123,

The virtual COM port is specific to the piece of hardware you are using. For example, the VCP drivers we use with our product originates from the company which manufactures the RS-232 to USB convertion IC. There are a few standard ICs out there. You can usually obtain the drivers from the chip manufacturer. Once installed, if you watch your "device manager" a com port will appear as soon as the USB device is plugged in.

Now there is also a different type of VCP that I have seen in the past. This was a software VCP which caused the ethernet port to behave like an RS-232 port.

I don't know what you need it for, but if you email me with more specific info, I may be able to direct you in the right place.

There may also be other types of VCP that I am not aware of, so maybe someone else can clarify further.

Paul

 

[Btech]

I've watched this tread and the other related ones and have a couple of questions about the Brultech devices.

Question 1: I have 400 AMP service to my home (2 - 200 AMP panels that are literally side by side.) Can a single Brultech device be used to monitor both panels and can we get a diagram/schematic on how this is done.

Question 2: I usually work in my panels while they are live - mainly because I don't have a meter disconnect (400 AMP disconnects cost well north of $1K in my area) and pulling the meter doesn't pull the power (don't ask me why, but to truly pull the power off my house it means disconnecting at the transformer.) So while it is not something I particularly like to do, I am sort of locked into it and am always, always, always extremely careful. Aside from the obvious risk of electrocution and the need to keep the CT wires free of kinks, snags and pinching, etc. as they exit the panel, what else is there to it? Aren't the CTs fairly easy to install? I mean you don't need any special tools since they just clip/snap on. Correct? Note: I don't expect the Brultech rep to answer this question due to the liability issues incurred in doing so.

Question 3: What is the length of the plug leads on the CTs. For the Hardwired version, it notes 6" pigtails. What about the plug version??

TechVet,

#1. Yes a single ECM-1220.H is capable of monitoring both panels... I will have to dig-up a "cartoon" to illustrate this.

#2. You're right I must careful what I say here. I repeat that the person must be qualified. Something I would like to mention when it comes to working inside the panel. An electrician will be careful not only from shock hazards, but secondary injury. I got zapped (600V) some years ago while working on an induction heater. I was able to pull away quickly enough, but as I jumped back, I almost went off the edge of a 20ft mezzanine.

#3 The CT leads are 9.8ft long for the SPLIT-200 CTs and 5ft for the SPLIT-100 CTs

 

[Btech]

I've watched this tread and the other related ones and have a couple of questions about the Brultech devices.

Question 1: I have 400 AMP service to my home (2 - 200 AMP panels that are literally side by side.) Can a single Brultech device be used to monitor both panels and can we get a diagram/schematic on how this is done.

Question 2: I usually work in my panels while they are live - mainly because I don't have a meter disconnect (400 AMP disconnects cost well north of $1K in my area) and pulling the meter doesn't pull the power (don't ask me why, but to truly pull the power off my house it means disconnecting at the transformer.) So while it is not something I particularly like to do, I am sort of locked into it and am always, always, always extremely careful. Aside from the obvious risk of electrocution and the need to keep the CT wires free of kinks, snags and pinching, etc. as they exit the panel, what else is there to it? Aren't the CTs fairly easy to install? I mean you don't need any special tools since they just clip/snap on. Correct? Note: I don't expect the Brultech rep to answer this question due to the liability issues incurred in doing so.

Question 3: What is the length of the plug leads on the CTs. For the Hardwired version, it notes 6" pigtails. What about the plug version??

TechVet,

#1. Yes a single ECM-1220.H is capable of monitoring both panels... I will have to dig-up a "cartoon" to illustrate this.

#2. You're right I must careful what I say here. I repeat that the person must be qualified. Something I would like to mention when it comes to working inside the panel. An electrician will be careful not only from shock hazards, but secondary injury. I got zapped (600V) some years ago while working on an induction heater. I was able to pull away quickly enough, but as I jumped back, I almost went off the edge of a 20ft mezzanine.

#3 The CT leads are 9.8ft long for the SPLIT-200 CTs and 5ft for the SPLIT-100 CTs

OK I have a diagram that illustrates two 240V loads. In your case, instead of a sub load in CH2, the two CTs would be connected to the second panel.

Paul

 

[Btech]

I've watched this tread and the other related ones and have a couple of questions about the Brultech devices.

Question 1: I have 400 AMP service to my home (2 - 200 AMP panels that are literally side by side.) Can a single Brultech device be used to monitor both panels and can we get a diagram/schematic on how this is done.

Question 2: I usually work in my panels while they are live - mainly because I don't have a meter disconnect (400 AMP disconnects cost well north of $1K in my area) and pulling the meter doesn't pull the power (don't ask me why, but to truly pull the power off my house it means disconnecting at the transformer.) So while it is not something I particularly like to do, I am sort of locked into it and am always, always, always extremely careful. Aside from the obvious risk of electrocution and the need to keep the CT wires free of kinks, snags and pinching, etc. as they exit the panel, what else is there to it? Aren't the CTs fairly easy to install? I mean you don't need any special tools since they just clip/snap on. Correct? Note: I don't expect the Brultech rep to answer this question due to the liability issues incurred in doing so.

Question 3: What is the length of the plug leads on the CTs. For the Hardwired version, it notes 6" pigtails. What about the plug version??

TechVet,

#1. Yes a single ECM-1220.H is capable of monitoring both panels... I will have to dig-up a "cartoon" to illustrate this.

#2. You're right I must careful what I say here. I repeat that the person must be qualified. Something I would like to mention when it comes to working inside the panel. An electrician will be careful not only from shock hazards, but secondary injury. I got zapped (600V) some years ago while working on an induction heater. I was able to pull away quickly enough, but as I jumped back, I almost went off the edge of a 20ft mezzanine.

#3 The CT leads are 9.8ft long for the SPLIT-200 CTs and 5ft for the SPLIT-100 CTs

OK I have a diagram that illustrates two 240V loads. In your case, instead of a sub load in CH2, the two CTs would be connected to the second panel.

Paul

http://www.brultech.com/images/Y%20connection.png .... sorry forgot to include the link

 

[personalt]

As far as installation safety.

Shutting off the main is always a good idea even if you put the CTs on wires above the main.

While it is true the CTs would be attached to the wires above the main breaker when you stick your hand in the panel the most likely thing you will get fried in is when you touch the bars by mistake

I dont want to be the one that talks a DIY guy into doing this that wasnt going to do it before. But certainly if you decide to open up the box yourself the best thing you can do is shut off the main.

Well, I noticed my panel has a big main circuit breaker on it...is there a chance I can cut off power there? It doesn't seem like there's much room from the breaker to the breakers below, so maybe not enough for the CT's?

Theoretically, you can install the CTs before or after the main disconnect. Unfortunately, in most panels I have seen, there are buss bars between the main disconnect and the circuit breakers. There bars are not the right size/shape for the CT to clamp around. The CTs are sized to go around the wire above the main disconnect.

 

[personalt]

I can sorta understand your concern.. but is this really differnt then you computer being hooked to 120volts and to your cat5 network. If it shorts out it inside it could energize the lan network.

In this case you are even safer since the CTs don't actually connect to 120v. And then even if they somehow got energized the brultech box serves as a giant but expensive fuse.

If I can paraphrase what each of you are saying, since it seems like you're missing each other and I hate for a 220V flame war to erupt...

Steve: Sure the CT's are directly connected to the display box, but if you WANTED to extend those CT cables so the display box could be placed a lot further away, then what you'd do is splice in some Cat5 to the CT cables in a separate box outside of the main breaker box. That way, no Cat5 is inside the box, and the CT cable inside the breaker box is rated to be safe in there. No worries.

Skibum: Even if you used super-heavy-duty rated cables from the planet krypton, I don't want my display to be directly wired in ANY WAY to the main power panel. I'd rather a transmitter sit there, and the thing that I actually touch receives the signal...so no direct wire connection of any kind.


I can see both sides.

 

[Steve]

Ok, 2 questions for Paul:

1. You said the cable length on the 200 ct is 9.8 feet. Is that both the plug and hardwire, or just plug? A member said he saw a note saying hardwire was 6"? It will certainly take more than 6" to get the wire out of the panel into a jbox to make a connection to extend, so are the bare/hardwire ct's > 6" or can you get the plug ct's at 9.8' and simply cut the plugs off to hardwire?

2. If you wanted to monitor 2 loads, say main and another 220V circuit, it appears you buy a separate pair of ct's and use a Y-connector.
a. If you hardwire, is the Y-connector simply just tying the different ct's together, or is some magical part needed?
b. Can you use different sized ct's for each channel? For example, if you wanted to monitor the mains with a 200A ct and another 30 or 40A 220v circuit with a 60A ct? Or, would you need to use all 200A ct's?
c. Do you simply but the 200A kit and then an additional pair of ct's sized as in b.?

 

[Btech]

Ok, 2 questions for Paul:

1. You said the cable length on the 200 ct is 9.8 feet. Is that both the plug and hardwire, or just plug? A member said he saw a note saying hardwire was 6"? It will certainly take more than 6" to get the wire out of the panel into a jbox to make a connection to extend, so are the bare/hardwire ct's > 6" or can you get the plug ct's at 9.8' and simply cut the plugs off to hardwire?

2. If you wanted to monitor 2 loads, say main and another 220V circuit, it appears you buy a separate pair of ct's and use a Y-connector.
a. If you hardwire, is the Y-connector simply just tying the different ct's together, or is some magical part needed?
b. Can you use different sized ct's for each channel? For example, if you wanted to monitor the mains with a 200A ct and another 30 or 40A 220v circuit with a 60A ct? Or, would you need to use all 200A ct's?
c. Do you simply but the 200A kit and then an additional pair of ct's sized as in b.?

1. The CT cable is 9.8ft regardless of the connection type. The ECM-1220.H-WR have 6" length wire exiting the back for connection (outside the service panel of course).

2. a) There is one "magical" part we would include ... simply a resistor to reduce the CT output by 1/2, since the series connected CTs will output twice the amount possible with one CT. Using the ECM parameters, the input range is then adjusted by a factor of two to compensate for this.
The two channels are independant therefore you can have a pair of 200A CTs on CH1 and a pair of 60A CTs on CH2. The CT settings for each channel are independant.
c) If you purchase a package with an additional Y CT pair, then the pair shipped with the unit will b a Y-set also. If you order plug type, then both CTs share the same plug and the resistor is built in. If you order the wire connection type, the resistor is user installed while connecting the unit.

 

[jharrell]

... not CQC specific at all ... your USB connection looks just a regular COMx ...

I don't mean to hijack this thread but can someone point me in the direction of a virtual serial port driver for USB? What I'm finding via Google doesn't fit the bill.

Hey there 123,

The virtual COM port is specific to the piece of hardware you are using. For example, the VCP drivers we use with our product originates from the company which manufactures the RS-232 to USB convertion IC. There are a few standard ICs out there. You can usually obtain the drivers from the chip manufacturer. Once installed, if you watch your "device manager" a com port will appear as soon as the USB device is plugged in.

Now there is also a different type of VCP that I have seen in the past. This was a software VCP which caused the ethernet port to behave like an RS-232 port.

I don't know what you need it for, but if you email me with more specific info, I may be able to direct you in the right place.

There may also be other types of VCP that I am not aware of, so maybe someone else can clarify further.

Paul

So whats the option for getting this thing on my lan? I'd love to jump on this special offer, but have about 50ft of cable length between where I want the display and where my PC is. USB will go 6ft unless I get some kind of USB to cat5 extender, Zigbee would work, but I would rather keep it hardwired. You mentioned a limited run version with a rs232 port(since that all it is internally), this would work for longer distance, but more imporantly I could get a serial to ethernet converter that provides a VCP driver. What about a version with the serial-ethernet converter built in? .

 

[Btech]

... not CQC specific at all ... your USB connection looks just a regular COMx ...

I don't mean to hijack this thread but can someone point me in the direction of a virtual serial port driver for USB? What I'm finding via Google doesn't fit the bill.

Hey there 123,

The virtual COM port is specific to the piece of hardware you are using. For example, the VCP drivers we use with our product originates from the company which manufactures the RS-232 to USB convertion IC. There are a few standard ICs out there. You can usually obtain the drivers from the chip manufacturer. Once installed, if you watch your "device manager" a com port will appear as soon as the USB device is plugged in.

Now there is also a different type of VCP that I have seen in the past. This was a software VCP which caused the ethernet port to behave like an RS-232 port.

I don't know what you need it for, but if you email me with more specific info, I may be able to direct you in the right place.

There may also be other types of VCP that I am not aware of, so maybe someone else can clarify further.

Paul

So whats the option for getting this thing on my lan? I'd love to jump on this special offer, but have about 50ft of cable length between where I want the display and where my PC is. USB will go 6ft unless I get some kind of USB to cat5 extender, Zigbee would work, but I would rather keep it hardwired. You mentioned a limited run version with a rs232 port(since that all it is internally), this would work for longer distance, but more imporantly I could get a serial to ethernet converter that provides a VCP driver. What about a version with the serial-ethernet converter built in? .

We will soon be producing zigbee to ethernet gateways for a total wireless to LAN solution. We have working prototypes of ECM-1220.H units with an ethernet interface and plan on persuing this option in the near future.

Paul

 

[DeLicious]

the wireless option would be much easier for people like me whose breaker boxes are on the outside of their house... i think i'll wait for that.

 

[amirm]

In this case you are even safer since the CTs don't actually connect to 120v.

In the normal course of operation, that is true. But if the wires ever got snagged inside and managed to touch one of the breakers, then you do have 120v travelling that line. This is why they emphasize someone qualified running that wire to make sure this doesn't happen by accident.

I would make darn sure that the wire is securely tied so that if I pull on it hard, there is no danger of it breaking inside the box (or where it enters it).

And then even if they somehow got energized the brultech box serves as a giant but expensive fuse.

Without seeing the circuit on the box, this is not a safe assumption. I suspect UL testing involves voltage spikes around the wire but I am not sure they subject the box to direct AC and see what happens.

Piling on late on the whole safety issue , if you have worked on AC lines before, then you are already in danger zone. What takes the issue further in this case is the presence of high current lines in the box. Not that they can kill you any faster. You can get killed just as fast on a standard AC outlet. 15 amps is plenty for that. What differs is that if you short out 200 amps with say, the panel cover, the fireworks would put the China Olympics to shame. Doing the same with 120 is bad to be sure, but doesn't hold a candle to 200 amps.

Yes, there are more bus bars with power in the there so your chances of getting zapped is higher. But the biggest concern is shorting out the main feed.

Myself, I am pretty comfortable working in there but the first time took plenty of courage, even though I am an electrical engineer and have been shocked by AC and high voltage more times than I count. Even now, the few moments from unscrewing to removing the cover is rather tense. If I could find more $45/hour people around here though, I would have left the job to them. Alas, the hourly rate is $95 and they price by job which is rarely less than $250. Putting two outlets in my garage cost $450 from what I recall!

 

[felixrosbergen]

Hi All,

After a week or so away from the forum i had some reading up to do on this topic.

The electrical work is not yet started in my new house and i will check with the electrician to make sure i have a main disconnect that is upstream of the actual panel. I am getting a whole house surge suppressor put in, so my guess is that in order to service this they may want to put a standalone main disconnect in anyway.

With all that said it seems i have a means to disconenct the power completety to the main panel and i am thus planning to installed the CT's myself.

Looking for the 12 pages of 'fun' conversation i noticed that very little is said about how to have the CT wires exit the panel. What type of archoring and/or strain relief is needed. Can the same type be used that they use to anchor the romex?

Overall it seems like a lot of talk in here...how many people have actually ordered and installed one?

 

[beelzerob]

Overall it seems like a lot of talk in here...how many people have actually ordered and installed one?

Just got mine this morning. I called the electrician to schedule the install. I'll start a thread tonight with pics of what I've received and I'll update it as it goes along.

 

[ipsgroup]

Hi All,

...
Overall it seems like a lot of talk in here...how many people have actually ordered and installed one?

Ordered mine last Friday. Looking forward to installing it as soon as it arrives. Will post details.