CAI_Support
Senior Member
Thanks for your inputs Tom.
suggestions for enhancements to webcontrol (not 32)
- Thread starter bbsux
- Start date
Tschmidt said:
I'll be a little more generous and say it's of "limited value"
Tschmidt said:
I agree, a shunt diode won't drop anything, but should at least take out the fuse (huh? what's a fuse? Oooh, you mean the fusible skinny track from the power connector?!) in the event of reverse polarity.
CAI: what current does the WC8 actually need in its base configuration, and also when it's got 8 DS18B20 sensors, humidity sensor etc connected?
Like I said, I'm planning a redesign of my IO terminal board. Rather than using a standard linear regulator as I did in the past, a small buck converter may be a better option.
LM2574 makes a VERY simple 5V reg, takes up to 40V in but can only deliver 500mA maximum output.
Edit: The 2575 is a slightly larger package, same operating range but 1A output. Might be the way to fly...
I am not sure the inductor the LM2575 would require ringing with switching on the board wouldn't present more problems. I guess other boards do it though.
Here I am ordering another switching adapter for this thing, despite a boxful of analogue adapters, to support this unit. A readily available microUSB adapter from Wallymart or old cell phone would have done the trick. I am trying to keep this little, that started out as an anemometer for Christmas, project under $300. :wacko:
Here I am ordering another switching adapter for this thing, despite a boxful of analogue adapters, to support this unit. A readily available microUSB adapter from Wallymart or old cell phone would have done the trick. I am trying to keep this little, that started out as an anemometer for Christmas, project under $300. :wacko:
CAI_Support
Senior Member
WC8 takes about 350mA current not counting TTL output. At 9V power supply, that is like 3W power, less than an appliance in its power off state. DS18B20 does not take much power either, maybe <5mA each.
switching power IC is a good idea, but its input range also has limitation(of course better than regulator). If input for up to 40V, its lower range will start from 10V. If lower the lower range to 4.5V, the higher end range maybe 25V. That is determined by the capacitor and coil combination. It would be nice to be able to take 4.5V to 40V range.
switching power IC is a good idea, but its input range also has limitation(of course better than regulator). If input for up to 40V, its lower range will start from 10V. If lower the lower range to 4.5V, the higher end range maybe 25V. That is determined by the capacitor and coil combination. It would be nice to be able to take 4.5V to 40V range.
Certainly the wider the better, but if you can implement a SMPS that goes down to 4.5v that is great because then it solves the problem of running directly from 5V. The upper limit is more fluid. Does anyone need more then 24ish volts for a directly powered unit?CAI_Support said:
While we are on the topic of redesgining the power supply, this probably allso apples to the WC32 but I have not dug into that spec. Are you looking into PoE? If so the switcher will need to support higher DC voltage. I would think that would be a useful feature when the WC is used as a data logger without access to mains voltage.
/tom
Tschmidt said:
To get 4.5 to (say) 30V will require buck-boost. Probably easiest construction is a buck first, followed by a modest boost. It adds cost, noise, complexity and reduces efficiency (although not as bad as a series regulator!). I'm probably a "special case" - I have lots of 48V powered equipment, so a 60V input option really suits me better.
PoE is something I asked the CAI guys about a long time ago, but to do proper endspan requires significantly more electronics, and doing midspan isn't possible with the existing connectors.
To LarrylLix - if you want to run the board from a 5V USB supply, you can. The simple way to do it is simply NOT connect to the main DC input terminal at all, connect 0/+5 to the gnd and +5 on either the 16-pin header or to the 5V supply for the temperature or humidity sensors. (If you use one of my terminal boards, I provide a +5V terminal which can be used for this purpose also).
If there is enough (genuine) interest in a USB-powered option, I can add a USB connector to my terminal board for power, although I am a little dubious about the benefits it might offer.
CAI_Support
Senior Member
Search on eBay can easily find some POE adapter kit to allow sharing Ethernet cable and power line for less than $5.
A large portion users do not have PoE enabled switches, by adding that to all the board will increase cost for everyone.
We will consider all the suggestions.
A large portion users do not have PoE enabled switches, by adding that to all the board will increase cost for everyone.
We will consider all the suggestions.
On the temperatures sensor input page another line of options may work well labelled "Raw Binary" or "Unscaled" beside the "C" and "F" options.
Since code space is being scrounged from sensors that are not used as frequently and it appears the AIP5-8 are not being supported in newer versions this could make sense, PLC code writers can handle scaling factors easily with MUL and DIV and ADD/SUB for bias or offsets.
I have received my SWE3 humidity sensor (Sheepwalk Electronics) on a 1-Wire interface and have been attempting to scale a temperature to humidity factor but I would be sure temperature probes would have some zero offset built into them that will have to scale out for humidity. This is based on my doubt negative reading are sent from the temp probes.
With humidity this will be hard to produce calibration points stimuli for a scaling and zero offset factor. I would hope this SWE3 device would produce binary of 0 to x bits for 0-100% RH readings.
Oh yeah. The "Temperature Sensor Setup" page would need to be retitled as just "1-Wire Sensor Setup".
Keep up the good work!
Since code space is being scrounged from sensors that are not used as frequently and it appears the AIP5-8 are not being supported in newer versions this could make sense, PLC code writers can handle scaling factors easily with MUL and DIV and ADD/SUB for bias or offsets.
I have received my SWE3 humidity sensor (Sheepwalk Electronics) on a 1-Wire interface and have been attempting to scale a temperature to humidity factor but I would be sure temperature probes would have some zero offset built into them that will have to scale out for humidity. This is based on my doubt negative reading are sent from the temp probes.
With humidity this will be hard to produce calibration points stimuli for a scaling and zero offset factor. I would hope this SWE3 device would produce binary of 0 to x bits for 0-100% RH readings.
Oh yeah. The "Temperature Sensor Setup" page would need to be retitled as just "1-Wire Sensor Setup".
Keep up the good work!
CAI_Support
Senior Member
Hi Larry, For any 1-wire device, we must specifically add code to support it, otherwise it will not work. We must read its family code, and store its 1-wire ID and during command the sensor to start measurement or reading back, we must address each sensor individually. That is not something user can easily control in PLC code. We hide all those detailed work from users, so that user can get to the result easily.
I2C device can read raw data easily on the I2C bus. I think for what you trying to do, it might be worth to consider using I2C sensors.
I2C device can read raw data easily on the I2C bus. I think for what you trying to do, it might be worth to consider using I2C sensors.
CAI_Support
Senior Member
It is planned, but not having it yet. We want to have USB hub support first before adding more features to WC32. Maybe we could have a separate discussion for what you want for WC32....
Posted Yesterday, 12:15 PM
Hi Larry, For any 1-wire device, we must specifically add code to support it, otherwise it will not work. We must read its family code, and store its 1-wire ID and during command the sensor to start measurement or reading back, we must address each sensor individually. That is not something user can easily control in PLC code. We hide all those detailed work from users, so that user can get to the result easily.
I2C device can read raw data easily on the I2C bus. I think for what you trying to do, it might be worth to consider using I2C sensors.
How do users tell what devices CAI WC can interface with? I don't want to buy sensors and try them to see if they work or not.
Currently I have a humidity sensor (HIH4031) attached through a wire interface IC (DS-2438Z) Geeez I hate this forum with no cut'n paste....
The DS-2438Z shows up like any temperature sensor with a translated phony and incorrect temperature reading that I can ether scale and translate into relative humidity or what looks like raw data on the AIP5 input and I can scale and translate it from there. This lead me to believe there is a big hole in your statements about special code for each device.
Now if your new release v3.02.18b discontinues the AIP5-8 functioning, support is discontinued for some 1-wire I/f ICs and a 1wire communication errors cause the device to crash and reboot then I bought the wrong product. I have no interest in I2c devices and changing sensors at this point. Every time I have to add even as much as a pullup resistor the costs go up dramatically with addition of terminal blocks, track etc. to mount and break into cables. A commercially produced weather station at $6-700 is starting to look cheaper and a lot more reliable.
Hi Larry, For any 1-wire device, we must specifically add code to support it, otherwise it will not work. We must read its family code, and store its 1-wire ID and during command the sensor to start measurement or reading back, we must address each sensor individually. That is not something user can easily control in PLC code. We hide all those detailed work from users, so that user can get to the result easily.
I2C device can read raw data easily on the I2C bus. I think for what you trying to do, it might be worth to consider using I2C sensors.
How do users tell what devices CAI WC can interface with? I don't want to buy sensors and try them to see if they work or not.
Currently I have a humidity sensor (HIH4031) attached through a wire interface IC (DS-2438Z) Geeez I hate this forum with no cut'n paste....
The DS-2438Z shows up like any temperature sensor with a translated phony and incorrect temperature reading that I can ether scale and translate into relative humidity or what looks like raw data on the AIP5 input and I can scale and translate it from there. This lead me to believe there is a big hole in your statements about special code for each device.
Now if your new release v3.02.18b discontinues the AIP5-8 functioning, support is discontinued for some 1-wire I/f ICs and a 1wire communication errors cause the device to crash and reboot then I bought the wrong product. I have no interest in I2c devices and changing sensors at this point. Every time I have to add even as much as a pullup resistor the costs go up dramatically with addition of terminal blocks, track etc. to mount and break into cables. A commercially produced weather station at $6-700 is starting to look cheaper and a lot more reliable.
LarrylLix said:
1. Fully supported devices are listed in the manual, or you could email support. Devices which were not initially supported have become so over time, with CAI adapting to what people need. Of course, it's a business and they won't necessarily agree with every device that someone asks about.
2. Nobody is demanding you use this forum. If it's that universally bad, start your own. CAI don't own this forum and have little say in how it's run.
3. There's a difference between "fully supported" and "may operate, sort of"
4. Horses for courses. If the product doesn't do what you need, of course it's the wrong product. If you bought a 2-door hatchback and found you couldn't fit your wife and 18 kids in it, is that the car makers problem? Or did you buy something that wasn't suited for your purpose?
5. Neither did I, until the manufacturer DISCONTINUED the analog device I used to use and the ONLY practical alternative was I2C. Fortunately, after I'd proven you could bit-bash SPI, when I spoke to CAI about implementing I2C (there were timing limitations why it couldn't be bit-bashed in user code) - they came to the party, and now I can use a readily available, under $20 part instead of paying over $1000 for an industrial version of a $50 sensor I used to use!
6. If all you want is a self-contained weatherstation, then an over-the-counter station is probably more suited to your application anyway, and it comes with a fancy display console. If, like me, you want something that integrates with a slew of other devices and applications, and that you don't want the display console, and want to use other sensors, or have special needs then the cost is far less of a consideration. Hell, $600 will buy ONE QUARTER of what my helicoid propvane cost - and that's purely wind speed and direction! To some people making their own station is more than half the fun. The extra precision, accuracy or extended operating range may make it all worth the effort. For some people it isn't. Pick which category you fall in, but don't blame the hardware for not doing things the way you want them to.
CAI_Support
Senior Member
Larry,
DS2450 1-wire four channel ADC was discontinued by Maxim long time ago. When we had support for that, you can still buy that chip. it is probably very hard to find now. So we want to continue support users with more ADC input needs. I2C based ADC is obvious option, since many vendors make I2C based ADC chip.
If you still have that DS2450 ADC chip and want to use it, you can always download 3.02.18a firmware to use DS2450.
Please understand 1-wire bus support does not mean any 1-wire device will run without matching firmware, because 1-wire devices has special ID needs to remember, each different 1-wire device has its own command sequences and reply sequences. WebControl firmware hides those 1-wire communication details from users, but that does not mean it is easy to put on any 1-wire device, and expect it will work without firmware support. 3.02.18b firmware and future firmware will always has 1-wire temp sensor support.
The advantage of I2C support is to allow users to use ANY I2C slave devices. User only write some PLC function to communicate with the chip. WebControl PLC engine hide the timing details form user. That is a very flexible way to expand support for your special devices.
DS2450 1-wire four channel ADC was discontinued by Maxim long time ago. When we had support for that, you can still buy that chip. it is probably very hard to find now. So we want to continue support users with more ADC input needs. I2C based ADC is obvious option, since many vendors make I2C based ADC chip.
If you still have that DS2450 ADC chip and want to use it, you can always download 3.02.18a firmware to use DS2450.
Please understand 1-wire bus support does not mean any 1-wire device will run without matching firmware, because 1-wire devices has special ID needs to remember, each different 1-wire device has its own command sequences and reply sequences. WebControl firmware hides those 1-wire communication details from users, but that does not mean it is easy to put on any 1-wire device, and expect it will work without firmware support. 3.02.18b firmware and future firmware will always has 1-wire temp sensor support.
The advantage of I2C support is to allow users to use ANY I2C slave devices. User only write some PLC function to communicate with the chip. WebControl PLC engine hide the timing details form user. That is a very flexible way to expand support for your special devices.
Thank you for the information!
I had no idea the 1wire was based on one manufacturer that seems like they want it gone away. Knowing that I may have avoiding getting involved. Many HA people are tooting the 1wire as an answer to the shortage of sensor inputs for many other boards. Your WC board with 1wire and hardware counter fits that need for my small project.
As far as multiple counter inputs and speed I could see people wanting a vehicle monitor with engine RPM. I understand the Formula1 racing has introduced a FormulaE specification with all battery driven cars showing big promise and may have uses for a pcb of this calibre.
I had no idea the 1wire was based on one manufacturer that seems like they want it gone away. Knowing that I may have avoiding getting involved. Many HA people are tooting the 1wire as an answer to the shortage of sensor inputs for many other boards. Your WC board with 1wire and hardware counter fits that need for my small project.
As far as multiple counter inputs and speed I could see people wanting a vehicle monitor with engine RPM. I understand the Formula1 racing has introduced a FormulaE specification with all battery driven cars showing big promise and may have uses for a pcb of this calibre.
