System Development Questions

Gray

New Member
Sirs,

As qualifiers, we live very rural with zero proximity to war drivers. Performing cable runs to outbuildings will be impractical so I committed to using WiFi Network cameras. Most locations will allow a central power supply; the only location that will use a power brick has sheltered/concealed soffit access for a clean install. All camera locations will be eave locations in a exposed weather (under roof but exposed to blowing snow/rain). Temps range from summer +100 highs to winter -20 /- 30.

I am/was thinking about installing 3 or 4 Panasonic BB-HCM371A wifi IP cameras. I now see that the operating temps are not even close to required. I will more than likely need weather boxes, (but I do not want large shoeboxes hanging off the walls.) The D-Link DCS-6620G also looks like a starter but with the same temp issues.

I plan to use Mac and Security Spy to control the network.

I humbly request advice and suggestions regarding this project.

Thank you in advance.
 
I will let others make suggestions about the WiFi part of your plan but I would note that my wired Panasonic cameras were operating fine down to -10 degrees a few days ago. Of course today we are at +50 so I guess that is also a good test of rapid temperature changes as well.
 
Thanks Mike,

-10 is a good number considering they purport a +32 lower operating limit. We got a light snowfall overnight (about a foot), with a big storm forecast for tomorrow night. I have been out plowing my driveway (it's a mile long) and I still have several hours of plowing left, so I will not be able to reply again until later this evening.
 
You might also want to look at something like the IP Video 9100.

This is a box that takes 4 composite video inputs and makes them available via IP. You would be able to pair it with a WAP or wireless ethernet bridge for connectivity. These could live in the more sheltered parts of your out buildings and just have the actual cameras exposed.

We did this for monitoring our construction site and it worked great - until a lightening surge took everything out!
 
You might also want to look at something like the IP Video 9100.
This is a box that takes 4 composite video inputs and makes them available via IP.

You have had good luck with that unit? Possibly you have the newer firmware?

I had the original unit and it was the biggest POS hardware that I ever plugged a Cat5e cable into!! Even ask Dan (electron) as I even had him connect to it and try to see why it was performing so bad. The software wouldn't work and the video would not sync. I could not use more than one input on it.
 
You might also want to look at something like the IP Video 9100.
This is a box that takes 4 composite video inputs and makes them available via IP.

You have had good luck with that unit? Possibly you have the newer firmware?

I had the original unit and it was the biggest POS hardware that I ever plugged a Cat5e cable into!! Even ask Dan (electron) as I even had him connect to it and try to see why it was performing so bad. The software wouldn't work and the video would not sync. I could not use more than one input on it.

It seemed robust enough -- though I only ever had one camera hooked up to it. The motion detection feature was pretty useless since there was enough noise due to moving branches / changing light levels / etc to trigger it far too frequently. But the unit itself stayed up and working for weeks on end.

I'm not sure what version the firmware was ... as of right now it doesn't even turn on (along with the WAP and ethernet switch I had in the same enclosure ...) but I bought this past spring. I don't recall using any dedicated software - just connecting to the web server on the box.
 
GE rugged dome, I know it testing it went down below -30 and did cold startups from that point as well.


Most of the IP cams will have troubles on the hot side not so much on the cold side, the codec (video compressor) inside the cam gets pretty hot and will heat the housing up quite a bit.
 
Collin,

Thank you sir. I checked into the rugged dome suggestion you posted. I could not find within the rugged dome line what I am looking for: a WiFi IP PTZ outdoor camera within that line. Do they have one I missed?

Also, from what I am starting to learn, it seems like MPEG 4 is something also to be sought or is that important?

Gray
 
You are looking at this totally wrong, you need to look at what you wish to capture backwards. I can assure you the same cam doesn't belong in all 3-4 locations unless you waste quite a sum of money.

Also keep in mind PTZ is really only useful for observation, it will also raise the budget and usually decrease the output quality. I suggest getting more fixed cameras rather then few expensive PTZs.

You should definately check into streamers and network bridges, having wifi integrated into the camera is more expensive and usually not as effective. If you are powering the cameras locally shouldn't be a big deal to add on for the streamer or bridge.

To recap you can use plain old analog cameras through a streamer over consumer wifi.

This really comes into play if you have 2 cameras on the same structure, you'll only need a single streamer and radio. 3 makes it a no brainer.
 
Collin,

I believe that you are giving me accurate information, but it is beyond my knowledge level so I am not sure what you are telling me. I currently use a Linksys residential G Wifi router, but I do not know what a streamer or bridge is. I have large areas of ingress/egress (hundreds of acres with no channelized areas as choke points) that I want to observe (you did hit the observation as the key element). This location is almost always occupied, so the recording and emailing is important but of secondary priority. Unless I put multiple non-ptz cameras in the same location, I cannot have a reasonable expectation of observing the multiple areas in question.

I am thankful for your input, please keep going. Don't hesitate to talk down to me.

Gray
 
Collin,

I believe that you are giving me accurate information, but it is beyond my knowledge level so I am not sure what you are telling me. I currently use a Linksys residential G Wifi router, but I do not know what a streamer or bridge is.

A streamer is a device that converts the analog camera to MPEG4 or MJPEG, basically it is the same as the codec integrated into IP cameras. You can get a good analog cam and IP streamer for the same or cheaper then a decent IP cam.

Actually you can have multiple fixed HD cams for the same money but you would have the "shoebox" style housings. No matter how you slice it the shoebox is the way to go, thats why everyone serious about CCTV uses them. Weather you can hide them on your install or not is you question.

I have large areas of ingress/egress (hundreds of acres with no channelized areas as choke points) that I want to observe (you did hit the observation as the key element). This location is almost always occupied, so the recording and emailing is important but of secondary priority. Unless I put multiple non-ptz cameras in the same location, I cannot have a reasonable expectation of observing the multiple areas in question.

Multiple fixed cameras will provide much better recording capability however you may not be able to get away from a PTZ for observation. Sometimes it's just like that. Only you can really determine that, however if you are not sitting there manning the PTZ there is a high likelihood you will not capture what you are going after.

Basically I would rather have 10 $150 cameras then 1 $1500 camera and I pass the on to my customers. However sometimes depending on a variety of situations you can't get the job done with a $150 camera.

Cameras that point E or W may have to deal with direct sunlight, keep that in mind.

Cameras that point into oncoming traffic have similar troubles with headlights.

Those two areas will bump your costs up and limit the number of cameras available to do the job, each location should be evaluated.

Wireless bridge you can look at as the wire in a wireless setup, nothing more. This will provide much greater range compared to the radios integrated into the cameras.

I am thankful for your input, please keep going. Don't hesitate to talk down to me.

Gray

No worries and I don't mean to be talking down to you I just try and explain things simple enough for anyone to understand when I can.
 
Collin,

Please excuse me if you thought that I was suggesting that you were talking down; you were not. I was requesting that you do for my benefit.

Can you suggest/recommend streamers and bridges for me to examine? Is this http://snipurl.com/1wy7c the type of bridge you are referring to? I don't know where to look for a "streamer".

Thank you again.
 
Looks decent enough but I would hate to say it will for sure work for you, I would however assume that it would.

The number of cameras and the encoding done by the streamer will effect how many total cameras one of those can support. The concern will come at the recorder, you many need to use more then one if you cannot transmit the video from all cameras through the one radio in that unit. You should only expect something like 25mbps. You will want to disable backwards compatibility with 802.11b. You may wish to add exterior directional antennas, especially if these are metal buildings.


The streamers come in many flavors and prices, some of this depends on which DVR/NVR you choose to use. Whatever the case I would suggest you not go down the decoding route many hybrid DVRs can do that without extra costs.
 
Collin,

I have low priority assigned to recording the images, the greatest percentage of usage will be for real-time observation with motion sensing utilized to record. Motion in the areas covered will almost be always zero; any motion from those areas will trigger recording, and motion in those areas except for the occasional elk or coyote will be non-existent.

I plan to use Security Spy in conjunction with an iMac for control and recording purposes. Do I need a DVR?

Yes, the buildings are metal roofed and sided. Your point regarding external antennas is well taken.

Based upon the cost of the bridge, streamer, antenna, and multiple cameras with housings, does that compare favorably to 2 ptz (to cover the areas needed) Wifi cameras with housings for cost and effectiveness? I have zero experience at this, and am trying to understand what you are telling me.

What is decoding?

Thanks for your patience.
 
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