What occupancy senors are best value?

bucko

Active Member
I am having a hard time finding what occupancy sensors I need. The few I found all seem to be very expensive and look like most are dedicated to a specific lighting company and are powered by 120v.

I simply want 12 or 24vdc sensor to interface into my ELK M1 network and simply provide an NC or NO signal. I will be using PLC BUS for light control. Who makes an affordable low voltage sensor for this purpose? Preferably even a POE set up.
 
I am having a hard time finding what occupancy sensors I need. The few I found all seem to be very expensive and look like most are dedicated to a specific lighting company and are powered by 120v.

I simply want 12 or 24vdc sensor to interface into my ELK M1 network and simply provide an NC or NO signal. I will be using PLC BUS for light control. Who makes an affordable low voltage sensor for this purpose? Preferably even a POE set up.
http://www.visonic.com/Products/Wired-Dete.../Disc-et-energy
I have'nt tried it yet so can't say anything about its performance
 
I am having a hard time finding what occupancy sensors I need. The few I found all seem to be very expensive and look like most are dedicated to a specific lighting company and are powered by 120v.

I simply want 12 or 24vdc sensor to interface into my ELK M1 network and simply provide an NC or NO signal. I will be using PLC BUS for light control. Who makes an affordable low voltage sensor for this purpose? Preferably even a POE set up.

Was it the Lutron occupancy sensor you were looking at? They're great, but yeah, expensive.
 
Bucko, I'm using the Leviton OSC05-M0W but all of the Leviton OSC** sensors are twenty four volt.

The key for me was to get the the OSP20-RD0 power pack to power the sensor because it also has a separate HVAC relay. I've played with having the sensor control the 120 volt room light at the same time the HVAC relay sends a signal to the elk on an input, but have pretty much decided that I'm going to take the 120 Volt light out of the equation entirely so the sensor sends the signal to Elk via the relay and the ELK rules and UPB take care of the rest. As for setup, that means I'll disable the 120 volt load out of the powerpack and and only use the low voltage output (but the power pack needs 120 volts to operate).

I like the sensor. The "M" in the M0W means multi technology--ultrasonic and infared. But there are other models for just infared and ultrasonic. I got the set on ebay for around $60.

One caution...as good as the sensor is, if you are in the room reading or otherwise sitting still, the sensor will not detect you--which is why my current efforts are with some counting hardware and ELk rules.
 
Occupancy censor is an infrared sensor with little bit logic to have output instand on and delayed off. Those sensors are really cheap:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=370385350664

You can use a transistor to drive a relay, then have relay locked on (or use latched relay). Then a pair of contacts will connect another R/C delay circuit to reset the relay in the number of seconds you like. Small relayes are $1 a piece, transistors are 50 for $10. That probably cost less than $3 each finished occupancy sensor.
 
Occupancy censor is an infrared sensor with little bit logic to have output instand on and delayed off. Those sensors are really cheap:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=370385350664

You can use a transistor to drive a relay, then have relay locked on (or use latched relay). Then a pair of contacts will connect another R/C delay circuit to reset the relay in the number of seconds you like. Small relayes are $1 a piece, transistors are 50 for $10. That probably cost less than $3 each finished occupancy sensor.

Now that is a great idea. Did you build these and use yourself? Do you have a schematic handy? What about ceiling mounting? I guess you need some sort of housing with lens. Please give more details.
I am in China, and while not impossible, building stuff here is a little tough getting even simple components. I've done a few things already, but it is crazy just finding stuff like this here. Maybe the
factories keep it all to themselves!
 
why not use regular motion detectors built for security, and use logic in the M1 to turn on and off lights if you are planning on controlling it from the elk anyways
 
Occupancy censor is an infrared sensor with little bit logic to have output instand on and delayed off. Those sensors are really cheap:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=370385350664

You can use a transistor to drive a relay, then have relay locked on (or use latched relay). Then a pair of contacts will connect another R/C delay circuit to reset the relay in the number of seconds you like. Small relayes are $1 a piece, transistors are 50 for $10. That probably cost less than $3 each finished occupancy sensor.

Now that is a great idea. Did you build these and use yourself? Do you have a schematic handy? What about ceiling mounting? I guess you need some sort of housing with lens. Please give more details.
I am in China, and while not impossible, building stuff here is a little tough getting even simple components. I've done a few things already, but it is crazy just finding stuff like this here. Maybe the
factories keep it all to themselves!

I did not build it myself, but imagine that is not hard, just have an amplifier to make it trigger the switch. There is a complete kit on eBay has IR detector, lens and amplifier all build on a little board:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=220610893651

That seems can directly drive the CAI's WebControl TTL input, or adding a relay to drive the ELK like the picture in the item description.
 
why not use regular motion detectors built for security, and use logic in the M1 to turn on and off lights if you are planning on controlling it from the elk anyways

I'm against using sercurity PIR as they are not designed in the same manner. Their function is to discriminate signals in such a way to offset falses. Therefore, they are not realiable to use as occupancy sensors. It would be great if a company would build a dual purpose sensor to fit the HA market. It wouldn't be hard to do.
 
why not use regular motion detectors built for security, and use logic in the M1 to turn on and off lights if you are planning on controlling it from the elk anyways

I'm against using sercurity PIR as they are not designed in the same manner. Their function is to discriminate signals in such a way to offset falses. Therefore, they are not realiable to use as occupancy sensors. It would be great if a company would build a dual purpose sensor to fit the HA market. It wouldn't be hard to do.
The differences of security sensor and occupancy sensor is that security sensor turn the output on for once and occupancy sensor needs to maintain on as long as the sensor seeing any IR exist. Most security IR sensor will not see IR signal any more if IR source not moving. That is logic problem could be changed in the circuit.

I think as far as false signal concern, either case doesn't want to have false output.
 
why not use regular motion detectors built for security, and use logic in the M1 to turn on and off lights if you are planning on controlling it from the elk anyways

I'm against using sercurity PIR as they are not designed in the same manner. Their function is to discriminate signals in such a way to offset falses. Therefore, they are not realiable to use as occupancy sensors. It would be great if a company would build a dual purpose sensor to fit the HA market. It wouldn't be hard to do.
The differences of security sensor and occupancy sensor is that security sensor turn the output on for once and occupancy sensor needs to maintain on as long as the sensor seeing any IR exist. Most security IR sensor will not see IR signal any more if IR source not moving. That is logic problem could be changed in the circuit.

I think as far as false signal concern, either case doesn't want to have false output.


This is ture also occupancy sensors are not IR usally they are ultra sonic and detect a change in sound patterens on the room and will stay on till that sound returns to normal or a set time. So if you are sitting at a desk the sights do not go off. You can't do that with a motion. I have had many people int he past try to use mations since they where there and already installed and they just don't work. You really need to get the right thing here, also dependl on the area you are trying to cover.
 
why not use regular motion detectors built for security, and use logic in the M1 to turn on and off lights if you are planning on controlling it from the elk anyways

I'm against using sercurity PIR as they are not designed in the same manner. Their function is to discriminate signals in such a way to offset falses. Therefore, they are not realiable to use as occupancy sensors. It would be great if a company would build a dual purpose sensor to fit the HA market. It wouldn't be hard to do.
The differences of security sensor and occupancy sensor is that security sensor turn the output on for once and occupancy sensor needs to maintain on as long as the sensor seeing any IR exist. Most security IR sensor will not see IR signal any more if IR source not moving. That is logic problem could be changed in the circuit.

I think as far as false signal concern, either case doesn't want to have false output.


This is ture also occupancy sensors are not IR usally they are ultra sonic and detect a change in sound patterens on the room and will stay on till that sound returns to normal or a set time. So if you are sitting at a desk the sights do not go off. You can't do that with a motion. I have had many people int he past try to use mations since they where there and already installed and they just don't work. You really need to get the right thing here, also dependl on the area you are trying to cover.

You are correct, the advanced occupancy sensor also have ultra-sonic transmiter and receiver built-in. They actually sends out ultra-sonic singals every 15 seconds and listen to the reply. Those advanced occupancy sensor also have processor in it to record the difference between having people and having not. Each time a false-off hanppend, it will record that ultra-sonic pattern as occupied. I wonder what is the ultrasonic receiver would receive, a lower voltage? Since more objects in a room will reduce received sound level, but not change its frequency from the transmitter?
 
Just thought about this again. Ultrasonic transmitter and sensor are very cheap, too. Look here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=370395564013

I think for ultrasonic sensor to work, there are need for some processor to determine if there is any change. Basically, ultrasonic detection is like those distance measure.when you transmitted ultrasonic signal to one side of the wall, the receiver received from the opposite side bounced signal can be considered virtual distance between the transmitter and receiver. For each room, the virtual distance for nobody in can be different. But when anyone entered that room, even does not move, the virtual distance changed. If you do a measure for the empty room and compare anytime with that empty room value, you will be able to tell if anyone is in. Of course, if any furniture change will cause the virtual distance change. So you will need a timer help the ultrasonic sensor to determine if the furniture moved since yesterday. For example, if the motion detect did not detect any move in two hours, then the new virtual distance will be remembered. Or if any false-off happened (light turned off when people in it), it will know the virtual distance must be re-learn.
 
Will the multi technology Leviton sensors work well with a HAI panel? I have UPB in place... I just need occupancy sensors to tell them when to turn on and off. Perfect for bathroom and walk in closets I think.
 
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