Whole-house speakers: What type of rough-in wires do I need?

[rscott]

Hello -

I'm starting a house and I plan on putting in a whole-house speaker system. To be honest, I don't know exactly what features I need yet but I do know that I'd like to be able to play from my PC and iPhone as a minimum. Without getting into the specifics of what system I plan on getting, can anyone provide me with the basics for what wires I should run to accomplish this?

Thanks bunches

Rs

 

[Steve]

Well, without a specific question its hard to give an accurate specific answer There are several thread around that discuss this but in a nutshell if you want to be safe I would use a good 14 gauge speaker wire. You can maybe get by with 16 gauge depending on exactly what you're doing and what you expect, but as a general rule I would recommend 14 gauge.

 

[pete_c]

When I first wired for sound in my home I ran 16/4 to a low voltage wall plate near where in wall speakers were to be located. (all of the bedrooms, bathrooms, hallways, kitchen, living room, garage, outside deck and dining room). From the low voltage wall plates to the sound source also ran cat5e and utilized 16/2 from the wall plates to the speakers.

I am in the process of partially moving setup to a zoned Russound config but initially used Leviton digital chopin volume controls by each low voltage wall plate and had only two amplifiers driving all of the speakers. (mostly just for TTS with optional music via one AB8SS device). I will be able to utilize the Russound Keypads I purchased and also control the zoned controller via HA box thru TS interfaces.

Initially my base of speakers were Pyle mfg purchasing 3 cases of these (great deal). Today now have added modified setup a bit with various mfgs depending on rooms.

 

[personalt]

run two cat5 wires to the keypad location this way you can support both a whole house audio and an intercom.

 

[Neurorad]

run two cat5 wires to the keypad location this way you can support both a whole house audio and an intercom.

This would be in addition to the speaker cables.

Here is a recent discussion thread of this topic.

For distributed audio, basically, for each zone (pair of speakers), you run 4-conductor cable from the wiring closet to each keypad location. Then, 2-conductor cable from the keypad location to each speaker. Or, 4-conductor cable to one speaker, and then 2-conductor from that speaker to the other speaker, but pass the 4-conductor through the keypad location so you can tap into it in the future if necessary. Or, skip the 2-conductor and just pass the 4-conductor from one speaker to the next speaker, allowing you to tap into the 4-conductor for the first speaker when needed.

Search for standard 'CEA 2030'. It copyrighted, so you may just find a bunch of descriptions of it, online.

The ethernet cable to the keypad location will allow you to control the music in each zone. The second ethernet cable will allow you to add an intercom to the keypad location, or perhaps some other device in the future. Ethernet cable is relatively cheap; pulling it after the walls are up is expensive or at least difficult.

 

[CORT]

The web is full of resources to answer the original poster's question. Home audio systems are highly variable and there will be a unique solution for each person. Thus it is diificult to give good advice. My suggestion is to learn more about the hardware systems available, decide on one, and then use that manufacturer's web site/resources to learn about installation requirements.

Most distributed systems will have a centrally located amplifier with multiple speakers in the walls or ceilings and keypads or volume controllers in the walls. The amplifier is usually located in a wiring closet or an equipment rack with in-wall rated wire speaker wire and Cat5 run to each zone. Less sophisitcated systems loop speaker wires among zones and then use "dumb" impedence matching volume controllers to adjust the volume for each room. The latter configuration does not usually allow local input control and multi source listening. The more sophisticated systems home run speaker wire and cat5 control wires for each zone. There is a significant cost differential. It is easy to spend thousands of dollars in hardware alone on a 6 or more individually zoned system.

My preference is to use a Carlon or similar one or two gang LV mounting frame for in wall keypads with one cat5 control wire (more if intercom or local input for each zone is desired) home run from the amplifier to each zone. Home run 16/4 (good) or 14/4 (better) in-wall rated speaker wire from the amplifier to each zone's speakers. Some systems require a "loop" of the speaker wire in and then out of the keypad/wall mounting frame--this allows a local disconnect for intercom, Abus support, etc. If you know your system will not require this loop of speaker wire into the wall station, then you can omit it and save the cost of the extra wire. Be careful about installing speakers in garage ceilings if there is living space above, as the ceiling is a fire rated barrier; penetrations require special attention.

Do more research. Look on the web at what other people have done (including AVS forum). Return and ask more questions.

LV wall frames and dual voltage (high/low) mouting frames/boxes:

Keypad ideas:

The sky is the limit on in-ceiling speakers:

 

[rscott]

When I first wired for sound in my home I ran 16/4 to a low voltage wall plate near where in wall speakers were to be located. (all of the bedrooms, bathrooms, hallways, kitchen, living room, garage, outside deck and dining room). From the low voltage wall plates to the sound source also ran cat5e and utilized 16/2 from the wall plates to the speakers.

I am in the process of partially moving setup to a zoned Russound config but initially used Leviton digital chopin volume controls by each low voltage wall plate and had only two amplifiers driving all of the speakers. (mostly just for TTS with optional music via one AB8SS device). I will be able to utilize the Russound Keypads I purchased and also control the zoned controller via HA box thru TS interfaces.

Initially my base of speakers were Pyle mfg purchasing 3 cases of these (great deal). Today now have added modified setup a bit with various mfgs depending on rooms.

I wondered about 16/4 - what advantage does that give you? Most of the systems I looked into only required 16/2.

 

[AceCannon]

(16/4 just means 16gauge, 4 conductors. Two for each speaker)

Here is what I did:

16ga to "background music zones"

14ga to surround "theater" zones left / right/ center speakers
16ga to surround rear channels
14ga / rg6 / cat5e to sub woofer location in surround zones (I'm using the rg6 and powered subs, works great)

cat5e to each audio keypad location

I installed Monoprice in ceiling / inwall speakers and they work great for my purposes.

I chose the Nuvo Grand Concerto distributed audio system.

 

[nexus99]

You might want to consider sealed back speakers if you will be dealing with blown in insulation.

 

[Neurorad]

You might want to consider sealed back speakers if you will be dealing with blown in insulation.

Or, a simple wooden or drywall box placed over the back of the speaker, in the attic, beneath the insulation.

The enclosed speakers I've seen have been much more expensive. If you can blow in insulation above a speaker, then you have access to build a box for it.

A plastic grocery bag would also work, if you're using 'contractor/architectural' grade distributed audio speakers, in a room that doesn't have good acoustics. The quality of the sound isn't great to begin with, so the loss of the rear space/cavity behind the speaker won't make that much of a difference. But it could, so that's what I'm doing.

 

[pete_c]

I wired for in wall and ceiling speakers in one house pre-build and the other post-build. There are also externally mounted speakers.

You probably want to address if you want to mount the speakers in the ceiling, walls or externally and why.

 

[apostolakisl]

I am a big believer in conduit. Run conduit from a common location to wherever you want your touch pad in each room. Then run conduit from there to the speaker locations. Now there are no worries, you will always be able to change whatever you have to anything else. Put extra conduit to all of those spots where maybe you might want something but aren't sure. And, of course, take tons of pictures of where everything is before the drywall goes up.

Also, I wouldn't use blown in insulation or any insulation in the ceiling joists. Use the spary foam on the undersurface of the roof deck. It works extremely well, keeps your atic temperate, and makes it very easy to do wire drops and install stuff in the ceilings (like speakers) without worrying about the effect of the insulation on the speaker nor are you poking a big hole in your home's insulation envelope.

 

[pete_c]

Helped a friend (who is still finishing his home after 3 years) - he's not in a rush to move. We put in mud plates (later blanks) where the speakers were going to be placed and the wall controls. This allowed for later placement and having the folks doing the drywall to cut. The only thing is that you will see the mud plates until you install the speakers. In FL I still have a "few" mudplates with no controls or speakers after about 10 years. Another friend we installed mud plates and flexible tubing for wire runs.

 

[felixrosbergen]

I am a big believer in conduit. Run conduit from a common location to wherever you want your touch pad in each room. Then run conduit from there to the speaker locations. Now there are no worries, you will always be able to change whatever you have to anything else. Put extra conduit to all of those spots where maybe you might want something but aren't sure. And, of course, take tons of pictures of where everything is before the drywall goes up.

Also, I wouldn't use blown in insulation or any insulation in the ceiling joists. Use the spary foam on the undersurface of the roof deck. It works extremely well, keeps your atic temperate, and makes it very easy to do wire drops and install stuff in the ceilings (like speakers) without worrying about the effect of the insulation on the speaker nor are you poking a big hole in your home's insulation envelope.

I am a big fan of conduit myself as well, but your solution seems a bit over the top IMHO. It will surely work and give a lot of flexibility. BUt the 16/4 or 14/4 loop via keypad and Cat5 to keypad generally seems to work for the vast majority of people and system. A conduit solution is always more expensive since you pay for the conduit and then pay for the cable later. In some cases this is not true, for example if you wanted a LV contractor to run 2xcat5 + 2x RG6QS hey may charge you for 4 runs and a conduit would be cheaper in such a case.

One could consider running conduit from the wiring room to the keypad location (for the ability to add cabling later for intercom or whatever) and 16/4 or 14/4 from there onwards, but unless you put the 16/4 or 14/4 in the conduit to begin with you'd having the connect the run in the conduit to the run coming from the speakers and i don't need splices (i.e. point of failure) at all.

 

[apostolakisl]

MavRic,

I agree that if you know for sure what wire you want and are sure that nothing different is ever going to be needed, then it is an unecessary expense to do conduit. But I look at it as an insurance policy that is a pretty cheap one. I have discovered that the gray electrical conduit that comes in 10 ft sections at home depot for 2.00 a piece are so cheap that the cost becomes irrelevant. The flex stuff is pricey, but a propane torch and a few seconds of warming will turn the non-flex stuff into flex stuff for all but the most difficult curves. I also fear what one of the other contractors will do when they are running their stuff next to my stuff. A nail through your speaker wire somewhere becomes a huge problem. With conduit, you can wait and drop the wires after everyone else is done.