Whole house water filtration/softener

[esheneman]

I've been a long time lurker and today I finally registered in order to post a message. I'm currently looking for a whole house water filtration/softener system. I've had some folks coming to my house to give me an estimate; and the estimates I've received vary by several thousand dollars. I currently have R/O system in kitchen and I find it bit troublesome (change filters every year and sometimes low pressure). Also, it is not connected to the fridge. I like the idea of having whole house unit that does "everything" -- filters and soften water eliminating the need for R/O in kitchen. Earlier today, a salesman tried to sell me water softener unit along with R/O and I asked him about water softener that does not require the use of salt and he said based on the level of hardness in water he recommends unit that utilizes salt. I can't seem to find unbiased information online so I hope some folks here can chime in before I make the decision. Right now, I'm leaning toward Pelican combo unit (filtration/softener).

Thanks in advance.

 

[Steve]

Welcome to the CT. I had the fortune of having a good friend who was in the water business. One thing I learned is that the big name places are a major ripoff. I have seen people pay almost $5000 for a $1500 system just because it had a name behind it and in many cases it was inferior equipment. Anyway the most important part of the system is the valve/head. My friend likes the Fleck or Clack head. Mine are Fleck. You also want a system that will give you high flow. You don't want to restrict the flow down too much. I did ask him once about the saltless systems and while I don't remember the details, he did prefer the good ole salt based softeners. Also, don't mistake a whole home system for and R/O system. They are often used together for the best water. A softener simply removes the hardness from the water. The other filters - carbon/etc do not clean the water near the level of R/O. My system consists of a prefilter, large carbon tank, brine tank with separate salt tank and a post filter. This water then feeds the house. In the kitchen I also have a multistage R/O system.

I guess it all depends on what you are after. If you just want softer and cleaner water the whole house systems are good, but if you care about your health and want the best possible drinking water, you need the R/O in addition. My R/O is plumbed to a countertop tap/instant hot as well as fridge/ice.

I would tend to listen more to a small reputable independent dealer rather than a large branded company. If you had specific questions I would be happy to bounce them off my friend. Remember the saying - "BUY a filter or BE a filter".

 

[86turbodsl]

I would tend to listen more to a small reputable independent dealer rather than a large branded company. If you had specific questions I would be happy to bounce them off my friend. Remember the saying - "BUY a filter or BE a filter".

Commercial systems are very overpriced. My neighbors just bought a new system for a 3 bed modular house from a commercial outfit for 3K and in comparison my system was about 2x the size for 1K. Mine was rated for about double the flow rate and excess capacity for outdoors usage. I worked with quality water associates (no relation) and he helped me spec the system and shipped the parts to me. Instructions were good. I tried to tell the neighbors but they preferred someone else to install it. Hey 2K more it's their choice right? :huh:

My system has a Fleck control head. The rest of the components are just unbranded generic stuff. Quality was good though.

 

[electron]

A buddy of mine put in a saltless system (but did pay more for it), and is loving it much more than his older basic system. I have a basic system, and truly hate it, it costs me a fortune in salt to maintain it, and it still doesn't do a perfect job. While I am sure that many of these brand name configurations are overpriced, I would definitely try to get a quality configuration.

 

[esheneman]

Thanks Steve. I haven't had much time to research last week and it seems like it would be a good to have both water softener and R/O system. I already have multistage R/O system in my kitchen; it is plumbed to a countertop tap - it just hasn't been used for two years. I'm curious if you've experience pressure issues with your fridge? I recall when I had R/O at my first home the water pressure was low and it takes a while to fill a glass with water. The guy who gave me the estimate two weeks ago he said it shouldn't be a problem. He said he can hook it up to the fridge. He gave me an estimate of almost $4,000 just for water softener ($1795) and carbon tank ($1795) plus replacing filters for the R/O system and labor to install water softener. The model is 'Advanced Series' by Wood Bros. Ind. and the salesman said it is very good system (I think he said it uses Clack head). I was quoted $6K by a Hague rep few months ago for a salt-free system.

By the way, the salesman recommended potassium over the regular which makes the water taste more bearable of course he said it is better to drink water from R/O system. I know my pets tend to drink water from the sink in bathroom so it is a concern - I know salt-based water softeners add some salt to water.

I guess I just need to know how much I should pay for the water treatment system including labor (I could install it myself but I don't want to). There are some pros and cons with salt-based water softeners as well as salt-free systems. It appears that the salt-based water softeners would add slippery/mushy feel while salt-free ones do not. Also, I just came across some info that WHO (World Health Organization) indicated that R/O is not good for humans as it removes essential minerals from water. You could say I'm more confused than before. :huh:

 

[esheneman]

Dan, do you know the brand/model that your friend has?

 

[electron]

No, I'll try to find out.

 

[Steve]

I would not worry too much about the WHO 'warning'. Trust me, I have a special needs daughter and am very much in tune with all of this stuff. Most of the warning are for distilled water. You don't want to drink that in large quantities for extended periods, but its actually very good for detox. R/O is the next finest form of filtration and while it does take out some minerals it is not as bad as distilled. Also, a healthy diet should replace all of the mineral and you should be just fine. If you are in the least bit concerned just take a decent vitamin/mineral supplement. Some people like to actually put trace mineral drops into their water but you find that mostly with distilled.

I found out after it was bought and installed that my fridge doesn't have any container at all so the water that comes thru the door is still tap temperature. So, I don't use the fridge for water, I just draw it from the countertop tap and use ice if needed. It does take a few seconds longer to fill a glass at the fridge vs the countertap, but my goes from the R/O under the counter up into the attic and across the kitchen and down. So there's an 8 foot rise and like 30 foot length and its still usable.

Dan- you do not need a 'branded' system to get quality. Most of the large branded systems are the same stuff a local plumber would use, sometimes they actually even use inferior stuff. Definitely do not be fooled by high price, name and advertising that you are getting better stuff.

I can't comment on the saltless systems but my salt system works perfectly. I probably spend around $20 month on salt.

 

[DavidL]

I noticed my brine tank was empty, so this thread encouraged me to do a little maintenance. I cleaned the brine tank and went to a local plumbing supply and bought 1 cu ft of resin and recharged the pressure tank. The softener was installed in 1997 so I figured what the heck, why not do it.

The first plumbing shop on my way to dinner wanted $250 for the resin. The second was $125 which is similar to online pricing so it was a no brainer to buy from the second.

Took about 2 hours to clean and recharge the unit. Got some exercize in as well lifting the tank / salt / resin.

looking at the old resin, probably a good thing I did do it. Pretty nasty.