How to fasten wires before drywall?

I guess this topic title is a little misleading, but I didn't know how else to start it. I'll be pre-wiring soon and some of the things I'm wiring for won't be in electrical boxes or low voltage rings that the drywallers will cut around. I'm talking about wiring for things like motions, screamers, glass breaks, in-ceiling speakers, etc... I know I can measure for all of these and then drill after the drywall is up to pull the wires through, but there may be times where I miss slightly and I don't want to do a lot of patching/repairing of brand new drywall. What tricks does everyone use on new construction to get wires through the drywall where boxes or rings aren't used?
Thanks

mrshanes said:

I guess this topic title is a little misleading, but I didn't know how else to start it. I'll be pre-wiring soon and some of the things I'm wiring for won't be in electrical boxes or low voltage rings that the drywallers will cut around. I'm talking about wiring for things like motions, screamers, glass breaks, in-ceiling speakers, etc... I know I can measure for all of these and then drill after the drywall is up to pull the wires through, but there may be times where I miss slightly and I don't want to do a lot of patching/repairing of brand new drywall. What tricks does everyone use on new construction to get wires through the drywall where boxes or rings aren't used?
Thanks

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I just built an addition on my house and my advice to you is to take a lot of pictures and measurements.
I had the drywall guys pull the motions, glass breaks, etc. thru the drywall. For the speaker wires I just left them in the ceiling and took measurements that were photographed. Another method that I have not personally used is a device called xspot from xspotproducts.com They seem a bit pricey and you still have to have a general idea of where the locator is.

The most common way to do this is to place a nail in a stud where you want the wire to come out. Then wrap the wire around the nail. Almost all drywallers know what this is for, and will cut and mud around it appropriately. Make sure to use a nice large, long nail, and you can leave some wire dangling off the end of the nail, but I wouldn't leave too much, as it gets in the way of the drywallers.

When our house was going through construction, the LV folks who did (most of) our pre-wiring would drill a small hole into the corner stud and push a 'loop' of wire into it at exactly 7'. They provided a floorplan of the house with places and marked where these loops were located in rooms - I also had the same thing when I discussed where things were to go before construction, so it was a good double-check to see that they had done what I expected. I've also got a tone tester that I can use to hunt down these loops if I ever lose the floorplans docs - those vary in price and quality, but the one I have is the Progressive Classic Tone and Probe Kit (701K) and it works great (you'll probably find this cheaper elsewhere - eBay has them all the time for $50-$60).

I simply left all my wires exposed where i wanted them to protrude through the drywall, and the drywall guys cut holes for each window contact, motion sensor, transformer, etc. I also did this for CCTV wiring - I used electrical staples to hold the wire to the truss and left roughly 8-12" hanging. The guys who did the siding and soffit cut holes and left the wire hanging for me to connect later.

I believe I have some pictures and will try to post them later.

For the speakers, I was installing all in-wall or in-ceiling speakers and made my own custom construction brackets (cheaper than buying them). For the ceiling speakers I coiled about 2-ft of wire and attached it via electrical staple to a joist above the speaker location. The drywall guys cut out the holes for the speakers, and I simply reached through the speaker cutout and grabbed the wire. For the in-wall speakers, I simply left excess wire in the stud bay (hidden behind the insulation where it existed). Again, the speaker holes were cut out by the drywall guys, and I just reached in and grabbed the wire.

I have done a combination of what others have said here. I sometimes use thin staples to staple the wire in a way so that it points out into the room. I make the staple loose so that I can pop it ou later if needed.


If this is totally new construciton with prefinished flooring going in I also mark the wire loctions on the floor. I mark the stud loction, what side it is on and the height.

I have a similar toner to the one above and I dont think it has enough power to work through drywall.

Sacedog said:

The most common way to do this is to place a nail in a stud where you want the wire to come out. Then wrap the wire around the nail. Almost all drywallers know what this is for, and will cut and mud around it appropriately. Make sure to use a nice large, long nail, and you can leave some wire dangling off the end of the nail, but I wouldn't leave too much, as it gets in the way of the drywallers.

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What he said, I do this all the time. Every now and then, the drywall crew will take the nail out and bury the wire so do make sure you have good documentation.

Sacedog said:

The most common way to do this is to place a nail in a stud where you want the wire to come out. Then wrap the wire around the nail. Almost all drywallers know what this is for, and will cut and mud around it appropriately. Make sure to use a nice large, long nail, and you can leave some wire dangling off the end of the nail, but I wouldn't leave too much, as it gets in the way of the drywallers.

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I like this idea. It seems pretty simple and "industry standard." So, should the nail stick out into the room or just between studs? I'm afraid they wouldn't see it if it's just banged into a stud, but not protruding. But, if it sticks out into the room, they would have to remove the nail too. I don't want to create extra work for them. I haven't met the drywall crew yet, but I'm sure we can work something out. I can probably provide them a very rough wiring plan by room so they know what to expect also.

Thanks for all the tips so far. As usual, good stuff.

Shane

Personally I wouldn't want the wires sticking through the drywall. Too many chances for something to go wrong. Besides, for speakers and other stuff, you don't want the wire coming out at a stud anyways. I'd plan on having all my wires behind the drywall. This means taking pictures and measurements and having a toner to find them after the fact.

Make sure you anchor the wires well behind the drywall and leave enough slack in the wires to move the wire exactly where you want it after you find the wire.

Just my 2 cents. There really is no right or wrong way of doing it.

sic0048 said:

Personally I wouldn't want the wires sticking through the drywall. Too many chances for something to go wrong. Besides, for speakers and other stuff, you don't want the wire coming out at a stud anyways. I'd plan on having all my wires behind the drywall. This means taking pictures and measurements and having a toner to find them after the fact.

Make sure you anchor the wires well behind the drywall and leave enough slack in the wires to move the wire exactly where you want it after you find the wire.

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Good points.
Thanks

I used the nail in the stud method on some. Used a 16 penny nail and fastened the wire to that. They stuck out so they had to make a hole for it or pull the nail. I forget which they did. There is a chance they will nick the wire when they are mudding and taping so if possible leave a little extra in the wall to pull out if needed. And this only works for things that can be right next to the stud - doorbells and I am not sure what else. And even with this method they might cover one up so you need to have documentation. I had one place where they covered an outlet that had to be found later. Often they mark a spot for each box, jam the drywall up to the wall, screw it down and then cut the holes with something like a rotozip.

Speakers are pretty easy as they get a large hole so you can just reach in and grab the wire behind. I used light staples to hold the wire to the studs. You want to keep the wires away from the drywall so it doesn't get damaged when they cut openings.

Most of my cables were going to low voltage rings or boxes so I stapled a loop of wire to the stud and mounted the box. For the low voltage mud rings I screwed a metal square box cover (with extension to match drywall thickness) to the stud. Much more solid than low voltage rings and not much more cost. After the drywall is up you can pull the wire out. If the drywall is sprayed you need to cover the ends of the cable or you will have to deal with overspray on the ends.

In exterior wall with insulation I used regular boxes and curled the wires up in the boxes after covering the ends for paint protection.

I ran conduit to just behind the mudring in a few spots. Makes it easy to pull in other stuff later if you decide to.

Pictures, pictures, pictures! Not just for electrical but also good for plumbing. You WILL think of something later and wonder where things are behind the drywall. This has saved me from lots of extra work more than once.

Pictures, pictures, then when you think you have enough pictures, take a bunch more pictures!

Also, zig zag a bunch of extra wire back and forth across the space between the studs loosely stapling the wire. Do this so that the zig zag wire covers a fairly large area. You then have the opportunity to fine tune your exact placement of the drywall cut-out and still be able to easily grab the wire and pull plenty out. If it is an insulated wall you need to be sure to do this after the insulation is in.

The rap around the nail thing is great if you know for sure that is where you are going to exactly want the device and if a stud doesn't interfere with its proper installation.

Don't zip tie loops of wire. You will curse when you realize you can't get the zip tie undone! (my friend did that, I had to laugh)

The rf wire tracers can help, but the cheap one I got at Lowe's didn't work very well. My electricians had one that worked great. Fortunately, I really didn't need it.

sic0048 said:

Personally I wouldn't want the wires sticking through the drywall. Too many chances for something to go wrong. Besides, for speakers and other stuff, you don't want the wire coming out at a stud anyways. I'd plan on having all my wires behind the drywall. This means taking pictures and measurements and having a toner to find them after the fact.

Make sure you anchor the wires well behind the drywall and leave enough slack in the wires to move the wire exactly where you want it after you find the wire.

Just my 2 cents. There really is no right or wrong way of doing it.

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God point. I should clarify I mainly use the nail method for motion detectors. Speaker wire I zig-zag and staple (like others mentioned) so I can pull the slack out after I cut the speaker hole.

I use a 3" piece of 1/2" conduit and a strap. Simply mount the conduit piece on the side of the stud with the strap and have it stick out from the stud about the width of the wallboard you are using. Then pull a length of wire out through the conduit. I have never had a sheetrock guy miss it or tamper with it.

russban said:

I use a 3" piece of 1/2" conduit and a strap. Simply mount the conduit piece on the side of the stud with the strap and have it stick out from the stud about the width of the wallboard you are using. Then pull a length of wire out through the conduit. I have never had a sheetrock guy miss it or tamper with it.

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Good idea, and it avoids them dinging the wire with their trowels. Just don't let the wire fall back in! Maybe knot up a big ball of wire that won't fit back into the conduit. I suppose you can yank the conduit out afterward too if you would rather not have it in the finished product.