Hows your experiance with Bitwise?

jlegault

Active Member
I'm trying to move to a mostly HW based IR control system. The OCELOT is a bit dated, so I decided to go with the Bitwise Pro controller with the project editor software and create macros in hardware for most of the heavy lifting. Gives me a lot better programming experience and gives me more flexibility and reliability.

I purchased from homeseer, along with some upgrades to get me HSTouch and some other goodies. Wow, turns out I really stepped in it. Somehow I got in the middle of a distribution channel fight and their (bitwise) customer service team has told me to take a hike. Apparently homeseer was not allowed to sell me what I purchased, so the bitwise guys are miffed.

I'm hoping this is not their true cards because I don't want to be married long term to a company that treats it's customers like this.

In any case, wanted to see if anyone had a very positive experience to get me over this one.

Also, if anyone has suggestions on an alternative IR control (hardware programmable) I'm all ears. I have a buddy who has close ties with Control4, I thought I might explore that path instead of bitwise and homeseer.
 
I purchased from homeseer, along with some upgrades to get me HSTouch and some other goodies. Wow, turns out I really stepped in it. Somehow I got in the middle of a distribution channel fight and their (bitwise) customer service team has told me to take a hike. Apparently homeseer was not allowed to sell me what I purchased, so the bitwise guys are miffed.

What exactly did you buy? This is an interesting dilemma indeed.

I would stay away from Control4 as they are VERY DIY unfriendly. ;)
 
While I wasn't party to whatever dialog you had with our team, I think I can shed a little light on the reason for the HomeSeer situation/ confusion. When we initially launched our product, we thought it would be a good fit for the DIY market. As time moved forward, we added additional features and functionality which we felt justified a higher-priced Pro version of the hardware, along with the associated Project Editor software , BitWise Touch app, etc. We have since experienced an amazing response from custom installers as a result.
The intent of the HomeSeer relationship was to allow the DIY market to continue to buy the original version (not pro) of the product to be used with HomeSeer software (since HomeSeer has it's own software capabilities for macros, GUIs, etc) and not as a way to get around buying the pro unit from BitWise.

The BitWise BC4X1 PRO is a product intended to be installed by a professional installer. Although appealing to the DIY market, control products like ours have a lot of complexities that make it extremely difficult for many, if not most end users to install. Pricing for the hardware, software and templates is all based on an installer model.

I'm sorry if you had a bad experience with our team. I do know that we have had multiple incidents of DIY/end users trying shady methods (I'm not saying that's what you were doing) to get around paying the full price of the Pro version hardware/software, as well as our professional dealers wondering why the hardware was available online for such a low price (not understanding it was not the Pro upgraded version).
The end result is that we will be discontinuing the sale of the DIY/ non-Pro version of the BC4X1 product through online stores. It was a difficult decision for us to make, but the confusion and support issues in the end just don't justify it anymore.
 
I purchased from homeseer, along with some upgrades to get me HSTouch and some other goodies. Wow, turns out I really stepped in it. Somehow I got in the middle of a distribution channel fight and their (bitwise) customer service team has told me to take a hike. Apparently homeseer was not allowed to sell me what I purchased, so the bitwise guys are miffed.

What exactly did you buy? This is an interesting dilemma indeed.

I would stay away from Control4 as they are VERY DIY unfriendly. ;)

Basically I think bitwise is trying to go up market with a firmware update to their controllers. If you buy direct from them, you get their "pro unit", which is the only unit that works with their rudimentary automation programming environment that includes IR macros, an IR db manager, and such, and a neat GUI creation environment for iphones/ipads (which I won't likely use). As far as I can tell it's exactly the same as the older units, and all the differentiates is firmware. Homeseer sold me a unit with pro firmware and I guess was not supposed to.

I also bought a HS pro upgrade (running HS2 now for lighting control since zwave+elk = "fail") which gets you HSTouch (touchscreen UI + dev environment) and a bunch of other interfaces I needed (UPB being one of them). I'm finally biting the bullet and creating a touch screen front end to my home's patchwork of automation systems (elk, RCS, zwave, ted, Aqualink). HSTouch is the closest to an integrated environment, so was thinking of going that direction - but their IR management is pretty basic and tedious, so I wanted something more powerful and something that executes in hardware.

I hear you on C4 - some friends have been happy, but they have an inside line of the dealer software. There is really not much else that I can find save for cqc that has the driver base that homeseer and C4 have.
 
While I wasn't party to whatever dialog you had with our team, I think I can shed a little light on the reason for the HomeSeer situation/ confusion. When we initially launched our product, we thought it would be a good fit for the DIY market. As time moved forward, we added additional features and functionality which we felt justified a higher-priced Pro version of the hardware, along with the associated Project Editor software , BitWise Touch app, etc. We have since experienced an amazing response from custom installers as a result.
The intent of the HomeSeer relationship was to allow the DIY market to continue to buy the original version (not pro) of the product to be used with HomeSeer software (since HomeSeer has it's own software capabilities for macros, GUIs, etc) and not as a way to get around buying the pro unit from BitWise.

The BitWise BC4X1 PRO is a product intended to be installed by a professional installer. Although appealing to the DIY market, control products like ours have a lot of complexities that make it extremely difficult for many, if not most end users to install. Pricing for the hardware, software and templates is all based on an installer model.

I'm sorry if you had a bad experience with our team. I do know that we have had multiple incidents of DIY/end users trying shady methods (I'm not saying that's what you were doing) to get around paying the full price of the Pro version hardware/software, as well as our professional dealers wondering why the hardware was available online for such a low price (not understanding it was not the Pro upgraded version).
The end result is that we will be discontinuing the sale of the DIY/ non-Pro version of the BC4X1 product through online stores. It was a difficult decision for us to make, but the confusion and support issues in the end just don't justify it anymore.

This is turning out to be the worst experience I've had in the DIY automation space w/r to customer service. Bitwise has gone dark and homeseer is recommending that I RMA and try an alternative product like the globalcache. For the record I paid full price for the Pro unit, the IRI unit, planned to buy the project editor, bought a couple ipads, and upgraded some of my AV equipment to the 21st century so I only had to reprogram once. Nothing shady going on - I was trying to give the business to a brand (homeseer) I had positive experiences with. I guess I will move on and try something different.

Aside from bitwise and the ocelot, how are other people integrating IR automation into their projects? Would I be better off moving to cqc before they make the pricing changes?
 
...and now for a completely different view...First, I must concede that my experience with Bitwise has not been a DIY based relationship but, rather, "pro". So, that may make a difference. With that said, I can confidently state that I have never had better support from any company in the AV/controls space than I have with Bitwise. They have been a pleasure to work with and have gone the extra twelve miles to support some "non-standard" work that I have attempted with the line. Lance, Mark and Ron have all been a major help and kick more ass than should be allowed. I also know that a CT regular, whom I know well and hold in the highest regard, has recently accepted a position with them.

With the tiny amount of vague info you've given here, I can't help but wonder if the issues you are having stem from an HS, rather than Bitwise, mistake. It appears that HS shit the bed and now you're bad mouthing Bitwise unfairly. You state that Bitwise has "gone dark" but don't bother to mention what they've gone dark on. What is it that you're asking of them? You passive aggressively attempt to disparage the company ("rudimentary automation"- hardly, "As far as I can tell it's exactly the same as the older units, and all the differentiates is firmware"- dude, the firmware IS the difference!) but are yet to articulate what it is you want from them. Don't get me wrong, I have been known to be hard on vendors but, at least I'll clearly state what the issue is before going to a public forum. In other words, put up or shut up. Also, explain to us how on the 16th you had no intention of using the "neat GUI creation environment for iphones/ipads" but on the 19th you had already purchased a couple of iPads to integrate? If you were experiencing such sour grapes why had you already so drastically changed your mind on front end choices and had invested heavily despite an ongoing gripe with Bitwise?
 
...and now for a completely different view...First, I must concede that my experience with Bitwise has not been a DIY based relationship but, rather, "pro". So, that may make a difference. With that said, I can confidently state that I have never had better support from any company in the AV/controls space than I have with Bitwise. They have been a pleasure to work with and have gone the extra twelve miles to support some "non-standard" work that I have attempted with the line. Lance, Mark and Ron have all been a major help and kick more ass than should be allowed. I also know that a CT regular, whom I know well and hold in the highest regard, has recently accepted a position with them.

With the tiny amount of vague info you've given here, I can't help but wonder if the issues you are having stem from an HS, rather than Bitwise, mistake. It appears that HS shit the bed and now you're bad mouthing Bitwise unfairly. You state that Bitwise has "gone dark" but don't bother to mention what they've gone dark on. What is it that you're asking of them? You passive aggressively attempt to disparage the company ("rudimentary automation"- hardly, "As far as I can tell it's exactly the same as the older units, and all the differentiates is firmware"- dude, the firmware IS the difference!) but are yet to articulate what it is you want from them. Don't get me wrong, I have been known to be hard on vendors but, at least I'll clearly state what the issue is before going to a public forum. In other words, put up or shut up. Also, explain to us how on the 16th you had no intention of using the "neat GUI creation environment for iphones/ipads" but on the 19th you had already purchased a couple of iPads to integrate? If you were experiencing such sour grapes why had you already so drastically changed your mind on front end choices and had invested heavily despite an ongoing gripe with Bitwise?

Bitwise has pulled their hardware from the retail channel completely today. Change of strategy that I was caught in the middle of. Begs the question of if they are planning to continue support for DIYers - I'd guess that they will given how popular they are. Not clear if the hardware is available direct to individuals. Hope they clarify and hope the answer is yes.

AnthonyZ, I agree they have a great product, and support it very well - which is entirely why I was ready to drop $1K on their solution. My issue is that I bought a "Pro" unit in the channel from a reputable dealer (and a very large one at that) for the retail price before bitwise explicitly changed their strategy, and was then told I would not be supported, and that I could not buy the project editor - which, again, was a big reason I decided to go with bitwise. The ensuing conversation was less than "nice", including Mark's insinuation above that I (and other DIYers) was acting in a shady way. Their head of business development told me that they would never sell me the project editor, even if I owned the Pro unit, and that it was not their problem anymore - rationally that is true, but not a friendly, supportive answer. My recent emails go unresponded to.

As to my critique of their "rudimentary" automation abilities - surely you must get where I am coming from. The hardware is severely limited in its IO abilities and driver base for serving as the center of gravity for an HVAC, Lighting, Irrigation, Pool, Media, and IR integration. You need to saddle it with another solution, like HAI or homeseer to get a complete system. My homeseer system alone has 8 serial devices attached, 2 USB, several Ethernet, and relies heavily on an ELK M1G to handle security and basic relay based I/O. Now I will say that the Pro bitwise + project editor+ ipad is a killer IR control system, giving you everything you need to control a home theater system, though it lacks onscreen browsing of media, channels, etc - the more advanced abilities that systems with deeper, software level integrations can offer. The GUI from bitwise is not that helpful to me - what is though, and limited to the pro system, is the hardware execution of macros, and their excellent IR macro building environment. Try to do this in homeseer and you will get where I'm coming from. It would be very different if Homeseer actually came out with a halfway decent IR management environment that was hardware agnostic.

Because you described yourself as a dealer/"pro", you may not be able to empathize with why I am upset and scrambling to discover other DIY friendly options for robust IR integration now that bitwise has explicitly taken a step away from the DIY market. As most DIYers, I chose this as a hobby, not because I'm trying to save any money - quite the contrary, I've spent LONG past the cost of a pro install of an AMX or Crestron system in just silly mistakes and the name of having fun.
 
I am not going to go into details but we got screwed pretty hard from them also with miscommunications (actually total lack of communication) and sudden change of business policies. so I TOTALLY understand where you are coming from. It was extremely unprofessional to say the least and left us hanging out to dry. Now they want something like 4x the amount we were charging for the same stuff with prettier graphics. Totally insane IMO but some schmuck will buy it until the next competitor comes along (saw a few at Cedia so it won't be long now).
 
jlegault: have you been taken care of? What is the plan? I would like to see this situation resolved, and will contact BitWise again if needed.
 
I posted this reply on the Pronto anti-DIY thread, but thought is might be appropriate here as well:

What upsets me with companies that do this (I'm not saying this directly applies to this company, you be the judge) is that they will come out with a new hardware/software product, tout it to the DIY market, get FREE troubleshooting from them as the DIY crowd contains some of the best troubleshooters one could find, then, after tuning the product to perfection, take it off the DIY market and declare it "PRO" worthy status. ;)
 
I surprised I have to say this again but, this seems to be a Homeseer snafu rather than a Bitwise one. If I'm wrong, the OP is yet to explain how it's not.
 
Well it doesn't matter who's fault it is. BitWise is no longer selling to DIY, but at least they will support existing customers.
 
jlegault: have you been taken care of? What is the plan? I would like to see this situation resolved, and will contact BitWise again if needed.

No, Bitwise is totally silent. They know where to find me. Homeseer is doing the right thing as usual by offering to let me return it plus shipping - however, now I am stuck with the decision of whether to keep the unit since I can't obtain another. I don't need anything from bitwise at this point, there is nothing that will be helpful other than to guarantee their existing DIY customers will be taken care of. I believe they have mentioned this, but not to me directly.

Good things:
- It's still the best IR solution/experience out there for homeseer

Bad things:
- I can't get another if this unit fails or I need a second remote unit
- Not clear whether the homeseer plugin will stand the test of time given their move away from DIY. In the homeseer forum they are saying they plan to continue to watch and help when they can. I will point out that I paid $30 bucks for the plugin with no implied warranty, so I'm the fool in this equation I guess. It's no different for any other homeseer plugin, but unlike cqc, I can't fix the plugin if it breaks after they stop supporting it.
- I will go out on a limb, mainly because I am still slightly PO'd, and say that their company is not likely to survive then next few years in the pro market given their attitude and the recent additions to the low-end market from Crestron and the fantastic C4 stuff. So even if they are saying there will be support, I am not sure I will rely on it.

If there was another strong solution this would be an easy decision. (Maybe I just need to be become a Crestron dealer :horse:
 
jlegault,
I totally understand your frustration about your situation, and I apologize for it. But if you look back at my previous response, you'll see that I specifically stated that I was not accusing you personally of "shady" intentions.
Since everything you purchased came from HomeSeer, that is who any refunds/returns would need to be handled through. I am not sure what else you are looking for from our team aside from product support, which I've already stated (in the HS thread you started) you will receive should you decide to keep and use our product in the HomeSeer environment.
 
jlegault,
I totally understand your frustration about your situation, and I apologize for it. But if you look back at my previous response, you'll see that I specifically stated that I was not accusing you personally of "shady" intentions.
Since everything you purchased came from HomeSeer, that is who any refunds/returns would need to be handled through. I am not sure what else you are looking for from our team aside from product support, which I've already stated (in the HS thread you started) you will receive should you decide to keep and use our product in the HomeSeer environment.

Let me be more specific with the questions then - answers are really what I am looking for:

1) Will I be able to purchase other units?
2) What happens if this one fails, or the Power supply fails?
3) Can I purchase the Project editor?
4) Can I upgrade the firmware?
5) Will you continue to support and evolve the HS plugin, like adding to the IR DB? (Yes is the answer from the HS forum)
6) Can I send in requests to your support team?
7) Can I get access to the support forum and other technical doc (which is really good BTW)?
8) Can I request IR codes directly from you?
 
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