Hows your experiance with Bitwise?

jlegault said:
Let me be more specific with the questions then - answers are really what I am looking for:

1) Will I be able to purchase other units?
2) What happens if this one fails, or the Power supply fails?
3) Can I purchase the Project editor?
4) Can I upgrade the firmware?
5) Will you continue to support and evolve the HS plugin, like adding to the IR DB? (Yes is the answer from the HS forum)
6) Can I send in requests to your support team?
7) Can I get access to the support forum and other technical doc (which is really good BTW)?
8) Can I request IR codes directly from you?
Click to expand...

1. We will no longer be selling the BC4X1 to non-dealers
2. If the unit were to fail within the one year warranty period, we would of course repair or replace it.
3. No
4. Firmware updates are posted on our downloads page. There is more to making a unit "Pro" than just the firmware. Existing non-pro units can utilize the latest firmware, but that will not make them Pro units.
5. I personally will continue to answer support questions in the HomeSeer forum. We have no current plans for additional development on the plug-in. The IR database is built into the hardware, and is not a function of the Plugin.
6. Our forum on the HomeSeer message board would be the most appropriate place to request support for the product in the HomeSeer environment.
7. All of our technical documentation is freely available on our website.
8. As you have already requested and received IR codes for numerous devices, I think we've demonstrated that. Again, the HomeSeer board is going to be your be your best bet for support questions for HomeSeer users moving forward.
 
This is slightly off topic.

The Bitwise BC4X1 looks alot like the HAI home theater extender. Does Bitwise make these for HAI?
 
BTW - if anyone is desperate to find hardware as a DIYer, the HAI HTX is identical to the BC4X1pro and is available from seemingly anyone who sells HAI equipment. I bought one and verified that it works with anything that talks to a BC4X, including the project editor (which treats it like a pro unit with X74 firmware).

Also, Bitwise support has been silent on the Homeseer forum since october - so they seem to really be dropping support for DIYers, despite what they said about continuing to support existing users.
 
jlegault said:
BTW - if anyone is desperate to find hardware as a DIYer, the HAI HTX is identical to the BC4X1pro and is available from seemingly anyone who sells HAI equipment. I bought one and verified that it works with anything that talks to a BC4X, including the project editor (which treats it like a pro unit with X74 firmware).

Also, Bitwise support has been silent on the Homeseer forum since october - so they seem to really be dropping support for DIYers, despite what they said about continuing to support existing users.
Click to expand...

Actually, if you look again, I have answered every support question that has been asked on our HomeSeer board, the last one of which was in October. The only thread since then was not a support question, and it was already answered by another user before I got there (I get daily email alerts if new threads are posted, which allows me to see new threads within 24 hours in most cases), so I really don't think that can be described as "dropping support". As stated, I will continue to provide support for EXISTING customers who previously purchased the BC4 for use with HomeSeer, via our forum on the HomeSeer message board, and I have done exactly that since we annonced that we will be discontinuing DIY sales.

Regarding using an HAI HTX with other software, your results will vary. It MAY work fine with the HomeSeer plugin, but will not be officially supported by BitWise or HAI. If any HAI units in the field are discovered to have been upgraded to Pro Firmware with or without a Pro Upgrade code, without the consent of BitWise Controls, its use will not be supported by BitWise Controls. If any HAI HTX units were inadvertently shipped with Pro firmware/functionality, it is a small number and will DEFINITELY NOT be the case moving forward, so I would not count on purchasing an HAI unit and hoping for it to support Project Editor macros/functionality. All tech support issues for HAI-branded units must be handled through HAI, who will ONLY support their own software.
Attempting to circumvent our restrictions (as you have in the past denied being your intention, which seems contrary to your above post) is the surest way for someone to get denied any technical support resources whatsoever, and force us to take additional precautions to ensure that Project Editor software cannot be used with unauthorized hardware.
 
Wow - is this about keeping the pro's happy, or about being spiteful towards DIY? What happened to looking the other way as long as you don't ruffle the feathers of the pro market?

Sometime it's not about trying to be cheap or go against the pro market... in my case, there are things I'm just better at. I can gurantee I know my Elk and my UPB switches better than most of the pros who install them (generally the smarter guys own the company; it's often someone lower on the totem pole who installs them). Another Example: I friggin' hate installing Car alarms - but after watching how the "pro's" do it, and the shortcuts they take, I still do my own because I'm not just trained to connect this blue wire to that red one - I actually understand the electronics enough to know what's happening and how to expand on the base systems (luckily I find friends who can hook me up with the tools I'm not supposed to have - like the programming software). With any of these systems, I'm not hurting the Pro market - in fact, I've helped sell many pro models and services by showing people what I can do - and referring them to a professional who can help them do it too. And by putting the effort in myself (think sweat equity), I'm able to get more without spending as much. That's a right I should have. And a right you have as a company is to make sure I'm not putting an undue burdon on your support resources - we all agree that's fair.

As far as I've always heard, all these BS anti-DIY policies were to keep the whining from the pros at bay. This case really does sound different - it sounds like BitWise is doing so well with the pros, they don't want their products in other peoples' homes. Seriously - to "take additional precautions to ensure that Project Editor software cannot be used with unauthorized hardware" is just petty. Of course using an HAI like a BitWise would be unsupported by either party - you do so at your own risk... how does that hurt either HAI or BitWise, both of who are profiting from the sale of that device?
 
Believe me, it's not about being spiteful to DIYs. If my last post came off that way, that was not my intention. As a matter of fact, I (like a lot of other people) am a DIY myself in a lot of areas (home improvement, etc), and would probably be in this field as well, if I didn't work in it. Obviously, there are some DIYs who are every bit as capable as a professional, and some professionals who should not be in the business. But in our experience, these are the exceptions, not the rule. And the fact of the matter that the support requirements for an inexperienced DIY/ end user trying to install a product like this, who has only purchased one unit, and will likely only ever purchase one unit, easily and often begins to exceed any profit made on that one hardware sale. Again, there are exceptions, but the exceptions are outweighed by the rule. This is one of the numerous reasons we have chosen to discontinue DIY sales. Another is that our dealer base has been extremely supportive of us, and we rely on their support to grow our business. We listen to their feedback. It's the path we have decided is the best for our company moving forward. If it comes off as petty, it's not intended to. If it becomes clear that people are using the product in an unsupported way, and it becomes an issue for us (even if something is officially unsupported doesn't mean we won't get the support requests), of course we would take steps to stop it from being an issue. A more to-the-point statement on my part might have been "buyer beware", but my real intention was to make sure people understand WHY they should beware, if they don't want to spend the money and then be left without support from either company.
 
I dont know your products at all and to be honest I will never waste my time even looking because if I cant buy it whats the point.

I do almost everything myself in my home and I do installations on a very part time basis so I dont consider myself a "pro". I will say that there are over 20 ELK M1 systems either installed by myself or by a DIY because they saw my system over the past 4 years. I also install other products as well such as lighting when I work with a friend who is lic electrician or my brother-inlaw who is a contractor.

So the demand driver for the product to some degree is other installations installed by a Pro or a DIY, however, I think a DIY advertises more than the person who had a Pro install the product. Many times other people become interested when they see when I go on my iPhone to control something in my house or to check on something. Since many of my friends and coworkers are technically inclined they opt to install themselves. Those that are not and really want the product have gotten a "Pro" install if they could afford it. There are several people who can not afford a "Pro" install and are not technically inclined and that is a market you would never reach anyway.

Can a small company afford to provide tech support to the DIY market? No! But that does not mean that they should be shut out. Look at ELK and others who support the DIY market through their distributors and dealers. The distributor or dealer who sells to the DIY market is required to support the end user. Only when the distributor or dealer can not answer the question is ELK contacted and then it is by the distributor NOT the end user. This way the distributor or dealer learn and can answer the question next time. It may not be perfect but I think it works. If a distributor or dealer does not want to sell the the DIY there are probably ways to address that as well.

If you really wanted to support the DIY market there are ways. You just have to want to. My opinions but I think they are valid.
 
I definitely think it's a mistake to deny the DIY market. I do agree with the tech support issues, and as Digger mentioned, it's one that many companies had to deal with, including ELK. But look at the ELK platform, how popular it has become. CocoonTech.com is the largest tech support resource for ELK, and ELK acknowledges this. It takes care of the DIY support issues, and since the manufacturers monitor this site, they can chime in if really needed.

Don't think of the typical DIY Cocooner as potential source of support issues. Think of Cocooners can be a great asset to a company.
  • We are usually the ones finding new bugs, and report them before anyone else would: free beta testers
  • We are the ones recommending features that would add significant value to the product: free research
  • We are the ones advertising your products to other people, who are willing to pay an installer to get the same products: free advertising
  • We are the ones supporting other customers. I.e., people who purchased a house with this hardware, but have no clue what it does: free support

So all you really need to do is carefully plan the tech support. As Digger mentioned, have dealers/distributors take care of this, or start a forum here, I'll set up a dedicated RSS feed, and you can monitor potential support issues using your e-mail client.

Look at Home Automation, Inc. They have become MUCH more accessible to the DIY world in the last few years, and I can tell you it has made a significant impact on people deciding between ELK/HAI (used to be a no-brainer for DIY people).

Just my 2 cents ;)
 
I think most of us are level-headed enough to realize that it's just not fair to expect any company to spend an inordinate amount of time on a DIY'er. As Dan stated, if you wanted to, you could set up a channel on here just for DIY'ers to support each other. If the products become more accessible and people have a source where they can help each other, you'll have a new self-supporting sales channel.

Great example Dan about HAI - a few years ago I wouldn't have considered them purely for this reason - now, as I've mentioned a few times - I'm seriously considering making a switch.

I guarantee the DIY market will provide value. Pro's tend to install the safer simpler setups that they can install quickly and move on from; the DIY'ers tend to push the limits more because they have more time to tinker and experiment. I know for a fact that some M1 firmware changes came as a result of discussions on CT. And if you look, plenty of pros hang out here as well.

But by all means - definitely protect yourself so the DIY'ers can't drag you down support-wise; that's just something important you have to do as a company. Luckily, there there's a great community here who is willing to take that over for you. Hopefully you'll reconsider your approach.
 
I agree with the past few comments. Unless your product is so complex that it requires specialized training then there is no reason to not offer it to the DIY market with caveats. Another example is CQC software. A DIYer gets NO OFFICIAL SUPPORT. Its just best effort support via their forums. Why couldn't Bitwise do the same thing? No phone calls, no direct emails. Most of the more knowledgeable DIYers as mentioned will always jump in and answer questions. Bitwise can put as little or as much effort into answering these questions as they want. There's a big difference between locking out a market and simply not offering support to it. But if its a product with complete and decent documentation I bet at least 90% of the people (at least here on CT) could handle an install and the remaining 10% even if they jumped in on their own and were lost, would be picked up by the 90%. Anyway, just my humble opinion, I have no skin in the game - heck I don't even know what the product does.
 
No product in this market is so complex that it requires specialized training to install. People on this forum, AVS, and many others are smart people and figure this crap all the time on their own or with help from others on the forums. If a company doesn't want to provide tech support for DIY guys... then don't. Sell it with a TOS that says the user can only get support through 3rd party communities like this one, or allow end-users to buy a yearly support contract if you think they are costing you too much time.

The DIY market is FREE advertising if you have a good product. People who are passionate about their technology end up getting their friends to buy the same stuff. They rave about it on the internet in forums and mailing lists. Bloggers write articles that mention the products. The end result is extremely high ranking on search engines, hopefully a lot of glowing reviews, and a lot of people that will help others out to get the product up and running.

For the record, I'm going with a Global Cache box, and iRule (for iPhone now, but out for Android in the spring).

It seems to me in the posts above, BitWise has given the finger to every DIY guy that thought they had a good product and gave them money. What a crappy way to do business. Companies like this tend to fade away and get replaced at some point.
 
Work2Play said:
in my case, there are things I'm just better at. I can gurantee I know my Elk and my UPB switches better than most of the pros who install them (generally the smarter guys own the company; it's often someone lower on the totem pole who installs them).
Click to expand...
OK, buddy. I'll bite. "Gurantee" it. What makes you so sure that you're some kind of uber UPB guru?

This DIY vs. pro shit gets so old. Both sides are convinced that the other is "out to get them" and it reeks of victim mentality BS.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
HomeSeer issue
Replies
3
Views
1K
pete_c
pete_c
pete_c
What's up with Cinemar?
Replies
3
Views
3K
DavidL
D
F
Help choosing an automation platform
2
Replies
16
Views
4K
Dean Roddey
Dean Roddey
F
Help choosing an alarm panel
Replies
5
Views
1K
Del91574
D
pete_c
Patch your Chrysler vehicle before hackers kill you - Published July 21, 2015
Replies
14
Views
2K
pete_c
pete_c
Back
Top