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Elk M1 covering detached workshop


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#1 hgupta1

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 10:06 AM

I finally ran 2 cat6 wiring over to my detached garage/workshop.        The garage is used throughout the day by workers who need to access tools and equipment, but I don't want them to have access to the house (where my Elk M1 is located).   I do want an alarm for evening though in case there is a break in.   Is there a good way to have the garage/workshop covered by the Elk or do I need a second panel? 



#2 RAL

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 02:01 PM

One way would be to make the garage a separate area.  You can then disarm the garage separately from the house.

 

If you don't have a separate keypad for the garage, you can arm and disarm the garage area from your other keypads by selecting an alternate area to control.  This requires navigating the keypad menus and can be a bit tedious.

 

If you have just a few zones in the garage, then you could simply bypass them.  You could even write rules to bypass them at specific times when you know the workers will be there.


Edited by RAL, 23 January 2020 - 02:14 PM.


#3 mikefamig

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 05:32 PM

There is no simple answer to your question because there is more than one way to accomplish what you want to do.

 

The most simple way to do it is to install a complete separate  system in the detached building but it is also the most expensive way. You will need a panel, keypad, power supply and backup power etc.

 

Adding a second area to the existing Elk system/panel will give you pretty much all of the functions of the main area for less money but is more complex to configure.

 

In order to add the second building as an additional area to the existing panel the out-building will need at a minimum an M1XIN to connect your zones to and a keypad. You would need to run the rs-485 data bus via the cat6 cable and 12vdc power through a second pair of wires. I used 18awg wire for the power in my garage and cat6 for the rs-485 but the cat6 can be used for both as long as you don't use a lot of power in the garage for powered devices like motions and sirens and such. I also added an M1XOVR to open and close the overhead doors.

 

Mike.



#4 mikefamig

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 05:34 PM

I lied in my previous post, you do not necessarily need a keypad in the detached building. It can be armed and disarmed from the keypad in the main building but it would be more convenient to have a keypad in both buildings.

 

Mike.



#5 RAL

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 06:00 PM

In order to add the second building as an additional area to the existing panel the out-building will need at a minimum an M1XIN to connect your zones to and a keypad. You would need to run the rs-485 data bus via the cat6 cable and 12vdc power through a second pair of wires.
 

 

I'm pretty sure any zone on the M1 or an expander can be configured to be in any area.  If the garage has many zones, then it makes sense to put a M1XIN out there and just run wires for the data bus.  But if you have just some door/window contacts and a motion sensor for a total of 2 or 3 zones, then you could use one of the CATx cables for the zones and connect them up to whatever zone inputs you have available back in the house.

 

The other thing to consider is how many wires will need surge suppressors on them.  For a handful of zones, it wouldn't be too bad to deal with.



#6 mikefamig

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 08:02 PM

Yes you can assign any zone to any area.

 

It is worth your time to draw the requirements before doing anything. I ended up with about 15 zones in the garage after doors, windows, motion and fire so I used an M1xin. A single wireless TX can serve you well there too.

 

Mike.



#7 hgupta1

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 07:23 AM

Yes you can assign any zone to any area.

 

It is worth your time to draw the requirements before doing anything. I ended up with about 15 zones in the garage after doors, windows, motion and fire so I used an M1xin. A single wireless TX can serve you well there too.

 

Mike.

 

I am not sure if the wireless TX in my house has a long enough reach, but I might try adding a second one in the garage

 

I'm pretty sure any zone on the M1 or an expander can be configured to be in any area.  If the garage has many zones, then it makes sense to put a M1XIN out there and just run wires for the data bus.  But if you have just some door/window contacts and a motion sensor for a total of 2 or 3 zones, then you could use one of the CATx cables for the zones and connect them up to whatever zone inputs you have available back in the house.

 

The other thing to consider is how many wires will need surge suppressors on them.  For a handful of zones, it wouldn't be too bad to deal with.

I always forget about surge suppressors.    If I connect a keypad, M1XOVR, and M1XIN to the ethernet cable, do I need a suppressor on each of those, or just on the ethernet cable.



#8 mikefamig

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 09:36 AM

You should protect all wires that enter the building from outside. Any stray current that gets on the wire will enter the building and take the shortest paths to earth. That path usually passes through your equipment.  I used one suppressor that protects up to eight conductors . each wire passes through the suppressor at the point that it enters the building and then the suppressor is attached to a ground rod in the earth outside the building. You need a suppressor in each building at the two ends of the buried wires and you want it as near to where they enter the building as possible.

 

Search around here for the word Ditek or lightning and YOU should find lots of posts. The opto isolator is worth considering but I chose the Ditek because it does not require a power source adding another wall wart to the system.

 

Mike.


Edited by mikefamig, 25 January 2020 - 08:45 AM.


#9 Work2Play

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 05:25 PM

Personally, I'd create the garage as a second area and I'd run one leg of the databus out to the garage (not using a M1DBH because that doubles the length of the run - do a true run) and put an XIN and a separate power supply in the garage with supervision.  I'd use shielded cable and I'd use a regular ethernet surge protector - I'd probably just try a Ubiquiti surge protector - even though it's not ethernet, it's the same thing protecting 8 conductors as they pass through.  I'd put one on each end.  If you want to arm/disarm the garage, then toss a cheap keypad in there too - otherwise, just schedule it with timers or even a function button on the main keypad - one press arms and it lights up when armed.



#10 lanbrown

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 09:02 PM

The Ethernet surge suppressors I like are made by Phoenix Contact.  The Perle model is just a rebadged Phoenix Contact.  They can be mounted on a DIN rail, are made of metal and more or less designed for industrial uses.  It does protect all 8 wires and can support PoE as well.  DT-LAN-CAT.6+

 

https://www.phoenixc...en&pcck=P&tab=1

 

I also used some of their DIN rail grounding blocks; so the metal DIN rail is grounded and the surge suppressor uses the rail for its ground.  These suppressors weigh almost 12 ounces.



#11 mikefamig

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 09:08 AM

In answer to your question -  "If I connect a keypad, M1XOVR, and M1XIN to the ethernet cable, do I need a suppressor on each of those, or just on the ethernet cable."

 

 

All 8 leads of the cat6 cable pass through the suppressor at the point where the cable enters the building. Then the cat6 goes from the output side of the suppressor to your box containing the elk equipment. In my case it goes directly to a DBH which then connects a keypad, wireless TX, XIN and OVR.

 

Instead of adding a second power supply in the garage I added a supplemental power supply in the house and ran a pair of awg18 wires to supply power to the garage which required a second surge protector. My reasoning for this was that this would provide additional power for devices in the house as well as powering the garage.

 

The supplemental supply is three or four amps which gave me plenty of power for both the garage and house devices. It also has adjustable output voltage which allowed me to turn it up to ~13.5 vdc to account for voltage drop over the long run to the garage. The Elk system can run on 12 to 15 vdc.

 

Mike.



#12 sic0048

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 11:46 AM

My initial thought was to just put the detached garage as a second area.  I do this at my house by having attic and crawlspace access under a different area from the main house.  This is because these areas can be accessed from the outside (or at least the garage - which is insecure when the garage door is opened) and I don't want to disarm them unless I have to access them.  Otherwise they should be armed 100% of the time regardless of the armed status of the main house.

 

But then people brought up the point about surge protection and it is a very valid issue to consider.  The greater the distance the garage is from the house, the greater the chance you are going to have a surge at some point.  It sounds like the garage is pretty far away (far enough that wireless devices might not work).  Therefore I would think long and hard about installing a separate system for the garage just to ensure separation between the two structures.


Edited by sic0048, 05 February 2020 - 11:48 AM.





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