Simply Automated Versus HAI/PCS

I need to decide between simply- automated and HAI / PCS upb switches.

Here are some of the items I am considering
1. Around 200 switches
2. Two networks - I need approximately 600 links
3. All 8 button face plate switch with first button controlling the load and remaining controlling the switch.

. I understand Simply-automated makes the 8 button face plate switch, with first button controlling the load and remaning button controlling links, however they do not have back lit switches. HAI / PCS has back lit switch but need seperate switch to control the load.

Any one can help me which is better.

Thanks

SAI's benefit is basically the changeable faceplates but HAI/PCS support Gen II (which does help in noisy environments). Keep in mind they will all interoperate, so even thought the switch feel and LED's may be a bit different, you can have different brands. So, that means you can say use PCS switches but SAI 8 buttons where you want, etc. Personally these days I lean toward PCS (yes they are the most expensive which is a negative). You can always get 1 of each brand to start and see which you like before buying a large quantity. I think you can also get a starter kit.

the deal-breaker for me was always the fact that SAI 8-button controllers could handle a load as well... i don't have extra space in gang boxes left and right to stick controllers that don't control a load. for me, the backlit keypads are for "cool" factor. if you're going to go all the way to a keypad, is it really just to check status? as long as you are there and you had an intention of turning something on or off, just do it.

How about the labeling of these x-button controllers? I am sure the laser etching is good on PCS and HAI, but how do the labels work on the SAI controllers? Are the labels under a cover or just stuck on?

What do yall mean control a load? A simple 8 button switch has to have HV going to it? That sounds crazy.

With the numbers that I have (250) switches, should I worry about noise? Will Gen II better than Gen I? If so, is it worth considering Gen II.

Large installers any insight?

Thanks
Jijo

yes, the labelling on the SAI's are just a piece of paper under a cover. you can download a template from the website and edit it yourself. use an exacto knife to cut out the holes and stick them on the switch... actually doesn't look too bad. my WAF went way up once she knew what each button actually did.

yes, the SAI's control a load. that is, they are a switch and a controller all in one. i always thought it a little odd that other controllers don't control a load like a switch. i mean, why would they make the assumption that retrofits always have extra j-box space around to put these things?

whether or not you have to worry about noise likely has little to do with the size of your install... either you will have noise or you won't, but given the vast distances a upb signal can travel, i doubt you will run into that limit in your house. if you are worried that much about it, it sounds like gen-ii is the only way to go, and obviously get a split-phase repeater.

I don't know about you guys but I don't like the 8 button face plates. They look cool but I haven't really liked living with them. For us, low WAF. I couldn't imagine putting them everywhere. I good compromise is the 1toggle/4 button face plates. YMMV.

It could also depend on what if any automation controller you are using. If you are using an HAI controller it is much easier to setup the HAI switches. If you are using an ELK then I don't think there is much if any difference in programming setup.

Jijo,

The SA 8 button controller is a US240 (details found HERE)which can use many different face plates that can be seen HERE.

You will also see the pre cut labels available.

In my largest install (Ultimately 120 devices) I used PCS rocker switches for most of the install and the US240 (configured top rocker/4button for room control of scenes.

Here View attachment Copy_of_OCT_27_2006_Sample.txt is a sample UPStart file you can download and look at that shows how I set up each room. Each room had local control of 3 lighting scenes and an (all off). Each scene was brighter then the previous (infinitely adjustable) with the lower right button the (all off) for the room. This pattern works well as the owner can learn from the 3 buttons which lighting scheme they like, and where the (all off) is. Rooms with 3 or more loads worked great this way. Before the owner had to set each switch to the dim level they wanted one at a time. Now they almost never touch the load control switches. In UPStart open a room folder to get an idea from the icons what the switch plate looked like.

To view the file in UPStart you must right click on it download it using "Save target as" and change the suffix to .upb. You should also change to "All files" right under where you change the .upb

I used 8 button face plates at entrances to the house, giving the owner whole house scene control as they were entering or leaving the house. again I used the lower right button as an (all off) for the whole house. Generally I used the buttons on one side of the 8 to do outside controls; garage, garage door, garden, gate control, water fall..... the other side of the 8 button controls inside scenes including maybe path to bedroom if they didn't need to turn on the whole house.

The sample I provide was early in the setup and programming and not exactly what we ended up with.

One note on the 4 buttons for the kitchen; The wife liked lights to come on instantly and the husband liked the 3 sec ramp up I was able to give them each a button to use when entering the kitchen that resulted in what they each liked.

I used PCS switches because I already had a 4 year history of using PCS x10 switches that were fantastic. Nearly no failures from 400 switches installed. As a retro fit I had to go with the SA US240 for control because they had to carry a load as well as to do scene control.

A feature not talked about much with UPB is scene "tweaking" in each room once the install and links are done. Basically you can adjust all the light loads of an existing scene while walking around the house, and then send a command to permanitaly teach each switch the new setting for that scene. I use this to walk around with the owner to custom set scenes to there liking. I can go into detail on that later if you are interested.

By the way this home has no central controller. Just a PCS timer module and a SA Scheduler/controller. All the scene/control functions are stored in each UPB device. The UPStart file holds the entire setup and can be used for restoration if necessary.

You will more than likely love working with UPStart in a large home with lots of loads. The ability to create beautiful and functional scenes is very easy with UPB

Dave

Thanks for kind advices. This is very helpful.

What is the maximum links I can use in the following UPB systems?
SA
HAI
UPB

If I need more than 250 in SA (I think that is the max). can I use two networks?

thanks
Jijo

umm.. aren't they all the same?

Can Homeseer support two or more upb network?



Thanks

jijo

i don't think so, for now... there is only one place to specify a COM port for the serial interface. you could certainly request the feature though and see what the developer says.