After 3+ years, my software decision is....

[shenandoah75]

John's J9AE...

finally!!! (after 3 years of being indecisive, trying everything from CQC to Main Lobby to Girder and beyond and spending the last 2 years not thinking about it at all but on other projects like woodworking)


Some of you might remember my struggles (and others like Ranger Digital went through much the same):

http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...018&hl=main
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...957&hl=main


There were many factors in my decision (and yes, cost was one of them) but without any disrespect to the other players, i think John has an excellent attitude and is highly responsive to customer's needs (even my wife's direct commentary) - both have been evident since we were both adopting viziaRF and psuhing/testing for testing elk's integration with it (and he was producing Lumenlink as an outcome). I think as one of us, its clear he has a big picture of what a DIY'er needs/desires are and thus similar goals and it shows.

Anyways, i still remain concerned about a windows based platform as in prior posts, but i have no time to write an entire platform from scratch on my own, and my attempts to use other options just didn't go so well. Specifically, LinuxMCE definitely wasn't as seemless as those videos they have showing how nicely it all just works out of the box (though the openGL ui was slick - Uverse (at&t / MS) could take a lesson there for their settops). The windows platform will remain the primary reason i still intend to drive everything but media through the Elk (including lighting) with the software interfacing through the elk for UI control.

anyway - i thank everyone for the input on all my inquiries in this area through the last few years. And i hope everyone still struggling with what the ultimate software package is can someday come to a conclusion they are happy with in terms of pros/cons and compromises whatever they may be...

good luck!
-brad


p.s. the one app i did use/purchase/play with during last two years was Ekaypad. Very well done Jayson

 

[fcwilt]

Hi,

I don't know if the system you are planning on using will run on Embedded Windows XP (old name for it) but you might look into that. The vendor may have to work with one of the sellers of Windows Embedded XP to come up with the correct configuration but that only needs to be done once. Then you can get these compact, diskless, fanless (whatever configuration you like) small form factor computers to run the application.

I have another brand that does so and it just runs and runs and runs. I have never had a problem related to the system running under Windows. I have screwed up the configuration from time to time - sure - but it just keeps on running.

Good luck with your project.

 

[signal15]

J9 is awesome. I wish it didn't have to run on Windows though.

 

[politics123]

J9 is awesome. I wish it didn't have to run on Windows though.

windows isn't all bad. I happen to enjoy the bi-weekly emergency patch installations, the frequent crashes, and the truly massive amount of RAM needed to do anything. :horse:

All kidding aside, J9 is great. If I could ever find the time, I'm looking forward to building some touchscreen interfaces for the touchscreens I bought 2 years ago!

 

[tmbrown97]

J9 is awesome. I wish it didn't have to run on Windows though.

That's *why* I run it - it's a well written .Net app. Windows boxes can be made as reliable as anything if they're purpose-built and you secure them properly - and for the masses, there's less of a learning curve. I have it running on my HP MediaSmart WHS server - never even needs a reboot.

 

[scriptx]

I agree with the choice! It was the only system I had up and fully functional in a half day. Every other one I tried led to weeks of tweaking and still had unfinished work.

Initially I stayed away from J9 because of no iPhone support (not a problem now that it has a native viewer) and lack of Media Center integration (which I decided to write myself and am currently testing as we speak).

 

[Aaron]

It is always funny seeing people post how they 'think' Windows is so unstable/unreliable. If these people only knew (which they obviously don't have a clue) what 24x7 mission critical, "lives depend on it", systems run on Windows all over the world. It is my job to know and I can tell you there are exponentially more of these types of systems running on Windows then ANY other OS (or hardware).

So those that think Windows is horrible should be so paranoid you should quickly go live on a secluded island far from Nuclear plants, missile silos, or anything else that can explode, melt down, or cause mass destruction if hit with an explosive device... and definitely do not go to the doctor's office to get an MRI, CT scan or any type of medical test where equipment is involved or to the airport where you and your luggage is scanned, or....

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

lol, Aaron, I was there with you agreeing and all until you mentioned that last part dealing with airport security... ;

 

[scriptx]

I agree with you Aaron. We have hundreds of Window's based installs running mission critical healthcare software without issue. Of course, the servers are locked down, we don't install a bunch of software 'to test it out' on production boxes and lastly, we turn off automatic updates until something highly critical comes along. Another important tip, if your drivers are working and stable, leave them that way. The vast majority of crashes are video/network driver related which I believe is why MS is tightening the screws on driver certifications.

 

[DavidL]

I agree with ScriptX.
And same implementation measures should be done for a Home Automation server. If you aren't following those details, then you can't complain about Windows stability. The most unstable part of a Windows installation is the "installer" Just because "you can" doesn't mean "you should".

Now, experience with hardware / software combinations also comes into play. There is SO much variety (and quality levels) with PC hardware, you can get unlucky easily. Stick with major brands and you should be ok. Heat is a killer so ensure you have good ventilation and don't use more cpu than you really need (to reduce heat / energy consumption). Ideally you don't require the use of Fans (low thermal needs / passive cooling) as Fans being mechanical die in time.
Solid state drives will ultimately be the way as HD's suffer from the same time woes. Not sure if SSDs are quite there yet due to eventual corruption issues. Something that will be fixed in time.

 

[nick_l]

It is always funny seeing people post how they 'think' Windows is so unstable/unreliable. If these people only knew (which they obviously don't have a clue) what 24x7 mission critical, "lives depend on it", systems run on Windows all over the world. It is my job to know and I can tell you there are exponentially more of these types of systems running on Windows then ANY other OS (or hardware).

So those that think Windows is horrible should be so paranoid you should quickly go live on a secluded island far from Nuclear plants, missile silos, or anything else that can explode, melt down, or cause mass destruction if hit with an explosive device... and definitely do not go to the doctor's office to get an MRI, CT scan or any type of medical test where equipment is involved or to the airport where you and your luggage is scanned, or....

Thank you!! I always get annoyed when I see posts about how windows is crap or "consumer level", etc., but I have learned not to rebut becuause of the fanboy label being thrown at me.

Just a small list of some other things you might come into contact with that run on "that crappy OS".

Touchscreeen soda vending machines - if you've ever use one, you used a machine running WinXP
The ATM at your bank - if its less than 5 years old there is a good chance its running windows.
Traffic lights - If your city has networked Traffic (stop and go) lights, that is probably running on a windows system
The pos system at your local megastore - very high chance that the front end is on windows and at least a few of hte back end machines run win server
The wireless inventory scanners at said local megastore - almost certainly running some derivative WinCE
any of those cute little kiosks that let you do bridal registry, get store maps, etc. - windows
Ever rented a movie from REDBOX? - you guessed it, Windows XP
Countless factories make the products you use every day with CNC machines that run Windows XP

That's just a TINY list of things people come into contact with every day that run on windows.

Windows isnt perfect and can certainly have issues, but the vast majority of them ultimately turn out to be third party issues (bad drivers, bad RAM, bad caps, bad cables, poorly coded programs leading to memory leaks, etc.) and unfortunately Microsoft always gets the blame.

Anyway, Im done

Nick

 

[jwilson56]

Not sure about this so.....does J9 have VBS support or some other scripting language that can be used to handle complex situations?

 

[wuench]

I disagree. Windows is a good OS, but it is primarily a user/workstation OS, not a server OS. It is graphics heavy (and only going to become more so in the future), and Microsoft is constantly making up their own changes to standards (i.e. DNS, network, etc). Microsoft assumes all users are on a LAN network with gigabit speeds and low latency. They build fat OS's and the applications that are written and deployed for windows are also fat, due to code bloat in their SDK's. (of course a lot of that is true for other platforms like Java). Microsoft is interested in selling Windows licenses, that's their bread and butter. And they want you to deploy as many machines as possible. So their servers OS's are not built to be efficient. If you want to deploy on a low latency or low bandwidth network, their answer is to put a server at the remote end. All of this bloat and complexity leads to less stability.

Just because there are a lot of mission critical applications running on windows (and I agree there are) doesn't mean that they should be. I would be very interested in seeing an uptime average of all those windows systems vs. other platforms. I can tell you network switches and routers are mostly written in proprietary DOS like languages or unix/linux derivatives and have uptimes often in years.

Now all that being said. Windows seems a fine platform for an home automation server. Most are also graphics heavy, and it is the platform that most users are familiar with. If developers want to have the widest deployment to consumers, Windows is probably the best choice. But if they want to have the most robust platform, windows is not the best choice.

 

[roussell]

To respect the OP, I've created an OS rant post here.


I'm extremely impressed with J9AE - I think it's being built by a robot because I don't understand how a single individual could turn out so much code and documentation with the quality that it seems to posses. I'm definitely excited to see where it goes, My only apprehension is how will the pricing be structured once it goes commercial? I know there's a developers incentive, but is this going to be a CQC/HSPRO price level app, something more, or something less?

Terry

 

[Aaron]

Not sure about this so.....does J9 have VBS support or some other scripting language that can be used to handle complex situations?

This is a good question. I think it does as it is coded in .NET

I'm considering installing it to see how it works. I looked at it several versions back when I only had X10 and it only supported zwave then.

I started a new thread to discuss j9 specifically... http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15393