BIG Home Automation Project 2011

Vantage Infusion IP port is 3001, and has a telnet session on port 2001. thats pretty cool. Vantage Infusion DIN is $2200 though so it better be cool, not as cool as wiser Wireless N :) but it would be if plugged the infusion into a WiFi router.

Does anyone know the BUS speed of Vantage?
 
It works like this.

You press a button that has an address

This command (button press) is sent to a logic engine ie PACA or Touch screen. How many bits is needed for this? a light switch is 1 bit (on or off) + data for its address (i dont know 8 bits maybe?)

The logic engine sees the command, in this case a short press on button one = all lights on/off.

The logic engine sends data to all relay/dimmer units to change state on all channels (still one command)
say you have 2 12 channel relays its only sending data to 2 units. (data for all channels change state) how many bits needed? still not many shouldnt be any different to sending 1 command to one channel.

The lights are no different to a normal installation no data needed just 230V

Think of the relay/dimmer as the switch in a normal installation and the cbus switch as a remote to the dimmer/relay.
the cool thing about automation is a switch can be programmed to switch whatever light you want and can change what it does by reprogramming it.
while in a normal install this would require a rewire job.

Hope you can see that bus speed doesnt matter as not many bits are being sent. no point in having a 12 lane road with only 4 cars on it.
 
NewZealandHome said:
ok, I interfaced a 5000SM module to the dimmers and relays, and then on the other side put a TTL to Android, and then the Android interfaces via WiFi router to my ipad2. I don't have any sliders on my ipad app yet, just images and buttons, but I can program that in later.. Anybody seen some really nice ipad interfaces they like? I was thinking of designing it something like this... what do you think?
iPadAppExample.jpg


also I'm going to interface in about 20 of these units: I'll most likely just interface them via usb. they seem to just be some sort of 12volt PIR system, I'll figure that out next..
PIRSensor.jpg

do these just send a signal when motion is detected? are there different voltage levels for differing levels of movement? or does it need a smart controller to interface with them? This model seems its a DRO micro radar and dual element PIR, I think thats good. The manufacturer said it was good.
Click to expand...

Think of a motion sensor as a switch and it switches when it detects motion.
Most need 4 wires, 2 for powering it 12v/24v, 2 wires for the contact (switch)

So you need some way of telling your lights what to do when it switches on/off

In my case the sensor switches and turns a zone input on/off on a ness m1 gold alarm.
the m1 alarm is programmed so if that zone is switched turn lounge light 8 on/off (cbus relay 2 channel 8 on/off)

This is where you need logic or relay 2 channel 8 will be turning on/off everytime the sensor detects motion.
This logic is programmed in the M1 gold
Here is a post about different ways of writing the logic to do this.
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3474&st=0&p=27518&hl=+occupancy%20+sensor&fromsearch=1&#entry27518
 
Yeah as long as the road is quiet, but you only have a 1 lane road in this case, and i hope that theres no slow cars on it :) lol. do you have a log of a c-bus in action from a live house?


Ok I've figured out that the motion sensors can connect back to each switch keypad, which makes sense, they are microcontrollers, so would have plenty of spare ADC inputs. You could probably even switch some relays from the input keypad stations too and other security related stuff, no need for a separate security system, as long as you have at least 4 I/Os on each switch keypad, all would be well.
 
http://www.cocoontech.com/portal/list/ios-iphone-ipad-home-automation-apps
has a 404 error message.

and your ipad mounts page, is missing a lot of latest products that I have in my word document, whats your email address, I'll email it. its 60Mb
 
After a week of browsing the web, heres my new project plan...

Android 7inch touchscreen cellphone HDMI+Ethernet+USB+Wifi+Bluetooth can be used as a switch or central controller.
powered usb hub (you have to remember that USB is just a 2 wire bus in essence also, the world’s best short range bus)
USB to Z-wave (to connect to zwave kwiklock deadbolts)
USB to X10 (not sure what I would use this for, maybe some xmas lights on a x10 socket adapter, or some non relay wall sockets.)
USB to RS485 (not sure what I'll use this for, I'll find a use.. it just seemed fast and cool up to 115200bps, maybe a custom homemade bus system to the outdoor pool)
USB to RS232 (for A/V control etc)
USB to CBus (lighting control) or USB to Vantage Station Bus (lighting control) or USB to Mode(control4) bus (lighting control)
USB to 20 I/O (connect higher amp relays or connect up to 20 motion sensors, or door reeds, etc)
USB to 4x 1amp relays (not sure what use this would be? Driving high current relays? Motor control, HVAC?)
USB to 3 zone IR (for MediaCentrePC and AV control etc)
360 PIR Motion Sensors (x16 connected to the USB to 20 I/O above)
IP to Pan Tilt Zoom NightVision Indoor Camera (gotta run lengths of cable for PoE for them, so might as well be IP cameras. All IP cameras are now Linux based)
IP to NightVision Outdoor Camera (gotta run lengths of cable for PoE for them, so might as well be IP cameras. All IP cameras are now Linux based)

For Setup:
custom made Android scene controller software.
custom made GUI designer and IR setup wizard.

For day to day end-user control and video surveillance:
custom made iPad software
custom made Android software
custom made WindowsCE software
custom made HTTP web server software
use any IR remote (via USB to IR)
 
in this case the cars (0's and 1's) all travel at the same speed. the speed of electricity (v=1/QeR^2pie)
You will only get gridlock if there are more cars then can fit into the lanes.

Your talking turning a light on/off, something that in the real world is only 1 bit wide its not HD video here.

I work in industrial switch gear and we can control/count robotics so fast you can not see it move with the naked eye. what speed bus do you think we use? I worked with elevators those things that move up and down up to 114 floors at up to 7 meters a second with people is side em. what speed bus do you think they work on? I'll give you a clue, its slow and reliable but still fast enough for the job.
 
so everything including alarm equipment is controlled by a PC?
What happens if a HDD or something fails late at night? no lights no video distribution no alarm.
 
Great point nzspark!! but I've already got that covered... I wont be using any of those old Spinning HardDrives (HDD's). yes you are right HDDs are unreliable, nobody uses them for primary storage anymore...

SSDs are naturally more rugged than HDDs because they have no moving parts. OCZ claims its Vertex drive can sustain up to 1,500 Gs of shock before sustaining damage or a drop in performance. Seagate claims its Momentus drive can withstand up to 350 Gs while operating and 800 Gs when turned off.

2010s is there is no such thing as a HDD now.. we use SSDs - uses less power, more efficient, super faster. Wiser and Infusion are linux pcs. all current security boxes are microcontroller + eeprom right... well all miniPCs are now samsung microcontroller + eeprom + solidstate SSD memory (replaces all hdds). all PTZ IP cameras are now run by Samsung CPU some DDR ram, and SSD and linux. microcontrollers are now 1Ghz! aka miniPC. if you want to call it a PC you can, but what we are talking about here, is something that can run just as long as old alarm equipment, has more power, speed, and reliability than all of the old alarm security microcontrollers that you are used to.
 
If your going to design your own security system using a serial I/O card connected to relays or a PLC?
Why not design your own lighting control, You can use 10v analog outputs to do your dimming,
I thought about using a PLC as lighting control but changed my mind when i thought about what happens if I die or sale the house? will be hard for someone else to walk in and faultfind/repar.
 
OK late to read this thread but here's my input.

Go C-bus - good and solid.

As for your technical questions abot C-Bus go talk with the gurus at the C-bus forums. You will have all your answers there (sorry I did not reat that closely to answer here)

http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/index.php

As for turning off a whole house - its take no time at all. You can send a command to an area or use scenes.

As for my experience, I have C-Bus, with and M1, CQC for touchscreen control and lots of other stuff that is automated.

Forget the M1, it is not worth the money on the C-Bus interface. I have a simple rule, if time between 6 and 9 in the morning and the window is open and the door is opened then turn on the fan. 3 out of 5 times it works. I have never bothered to see if the command is being sent to the C-Bus network, but in my experience, it is the M1 and not C-bus (yes, there are other things as well that dont work so well from the M1).

You may want to invetigate other alarm systems that have C-bus support, either Clipsals or HAI (no experience with these though).

You also need to think about how you are going to control this house. YOu say lighting, but there are many other systems other than lighting and C-Bus can;t control them all (even if you have a Wiser).

You will need a software package that can sit on top of everything (SCADA) and thus you need to be mindful of what hardware you select.

Take my example again
I have CQC by Charmed Quark as my HA package. It gives me control via touchscreen, iPhone, iPad and Android device over the following
Lighting (C-Bus)
A/C (Advantage Air Gen III)
Security (Ness/Elk M1)
TV's (3 LG's)
Media centers (xbmc)
Audio (MP3 playback through touchscreen)
Electric fence
Solar Power Inverter
Through the alarm, there are the garage doors, water tank levels, water pressures, smoke detectors....

Try this with C-Bus or any other "lighting" system. It cant be done.

So my advice is, start with the big picture and design for that, then come backwards to what you can afford now or want now and start there, knowing that when you move forward you wont be in a position where you cant integrate it (A/C is a very common problem in this regards - people isntall a system without the thought of integration and when it comes time to actually do it they are stuffed beause you cant integrate the particular system they have)

Mick
 
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