Elk M1 Active Low?

[Del91574]

The motion detector is already powered by an output on the M1XOVR so should already have a common negative.

Not necessary.
 
Only thing the detector is going to need is the ground reference on the terminal to work. Easy to verify....with the ground lifted and a meter between the terminal and the panel ground, you should read ~12VDC. Drop the ground or trigger the relay and you'll get ~0VDC or a slight voltage.

 

[mikefamig]

Not necessary.
 
Only thing the detector is going to need is the ground reference on the terminal to work. Easy to verify....with the ground lifted and a meter between the terminal and the panel ground, you should read ~12VDC. Drop the grounvdc at the terminal or trigger the relay and you'll get ~0VDC or a slight voltage.

I'm confused again.
 
The example that giesen posted above is using a relay on the OVR to shunt the terminal on the motion detector directly to the system common. If there is ~1 at the terminal on the detector and you reference it to ground then you should get ~1vdc. Where does 12vdc come from?
 
My problem with the example was that the relay is shorting the motion detector terminal to the elk common rather than the detector's common but giesen pointed out that the commons are tied together so it looks good to me.

 

[Del91574]

Just a convenience factor.
 
Don't know if he only has 4 conductors at the detector, which would be a SOP for 95% of the installs out there....if so, you would wire the detector as a 3 wire, then use the "free" conductor and easiest place to shunt it would be at the panel/expander/relay card.
 
@ Mike- if you don't have the collector shunted, your meter will bridge the circuit, reading voltage (path of least resistance).....I had a coworker argue for about 2 hours that a fuse distribution block was good because he was metering and seeing voltage on both sides of a fuse holder.....metering through the blown fuses and completing the circuit. Correct answer would be nominal to no voltage on the DMM.

 

[giesen]

I have 2x 4 conductor wire running to the motion detector, connected back to a remote box with an M1XOVR and an M1XIN. Here's basically what I plan on wiring:
 
M1XOVR Voltage Out 1 (+) on J3 > Motion Detector Terminal 1 (+)
M1XOVR Voltage Out (-) on J3 > Motion Detector Terminal 2 (-)
M1XIN Zone 1> Motion Detector Terminal 3 (Alarm)
M1XIN COM > Motion Detector Terminal 4 (Alarm)
M1XOVR Voltage Out (-) > M1XOVR Relay 1 COM
M1XOVR Relay 1 NO > Motion Detector Terminal 5 (Status)
M1XIN Zone 2 > Motion Detector Terminal 6 (Trouble) *** Not sure if this is correct
M1XIN COM > Motion Detector Terminal 7 (Tamper)
M1XIN Zone 3 > Motion Detector Terminal 8 (Tamper)
 
I realize I didn't have to wire the power on the motion detector to a switchable output on the M1XOVR, but it was convenient since the M1XOVR and M1XIN are remotely mounted in another can away from the M1. I could change terminal 1 on the motion detector to go to the + on J3 on the M1XOVR in case anyone thinks there might be an issue with using a switchable output.

 

[mikefamig]

I have 2x 4 conductor wire running to the motion detector, connected back to a remote box with an M1XOVR and an M1XIN. Here's basically what I plan on wiring:
 
M1XOVR Voltage Out 1 (+) on J3 > Motion Detector Terminal 1 (+)
M1XOVR Voltage Out (-) on J3 > Motion Detector Terminal 2 (-)
M1XIN Zone 1> Motion Detector Terminal 3 (Alarm)
M1XIN COM > Motion Detector Terminal 4 (Alarm)
M1XOVR Voltage Out (-) > M1XOVR Relay 1 COM
M1XOVR Relay 1 NO > Motion Detector Terminal 5 (Status)
M1XIN Zone 2 > Motion Detector Terminal 6 (Trouble) *** Not sure if this is correct
M1XIN COM > Motion Detector Terminal 7 (Tamper)
M1XIN Zone 3 > Motion Detector Terminal 8 (Tamper)
 
I realize I didn't have to wire the power on the motion detector to a switchable output on the M1XOVR, but it was convenient since the M1XOVR and M1XIN are remotely mounted in another can away from the M1. I could change terminal 1 on the motion detector to go to the + on J3 on the M1XOVR in case anyone thinks there might be an issue with using a switchable output.

 
Ignoring the tamper wiring for now and assuming that the goal is to short motion term5 to ground:
 
The OVR output is rated  50ma and the motion draws max 38ma so you are a little close but should be OK there.
The XIN zone wiring looks correct to send motion signal to M1
The relay common and NO wiring looks good to short term5 to common.
 
I think htat if you trigger the relay via rules you should be good.
 
I can't find any reference to terminal 7 and 8 in the motion detector manual that you linked to.
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

Why not power the motion detector from the OVR 12+ and neg terminals on the data bus?

 

[giesen]

The tamper is shown in the diagram on page 9, though there is no text addressing it. It's a straightforward NC contact so not too much concern there. It looks like the trouble terminal (6) is an NO contact if I'm reading that right, so I think we have a plan of attack.
 
I discovered what the "Quick Response Mode" is based on some text in the C100STE manual. It's not quite what I thought. The Quick Response Mode basically disables the auto-adapting to the environment that the MW/PIR do when the panel is disarmed. This leaves the PIR and MW in their most sensitive setting, but still requires both to trip. Not quite what I was hoping for, but since I still can't find a similar product without going with separate motion and occupancy sensors, I'm going to proceed anyways, and worst case I can add occupancy sensors later.

 

[giesen]

Why not power the motion detector from the OVR 12+ and neg terminals on the data bus?

 
I figured since I'm not using any of the voltage outputs on the M1XOVR, the current for the motion detector was within spec, and it's cleaner and easier to tie the pig tails together that I'd just use one of the voltage outputs. If it ends up being problematic I'll tie it back to the + terminal instead.

 

[giesen]

I want to give a big thank you to everyone who participated in this thread. I believe I've solved all the issues I have, and have learned a lot in the process!

 

[mikefamig]

Yep I love that I'm always learning something new here.

 

[Del91574]

I figured since I'm not using any of the voltage outputs on the M1XOVR, the current for the motion detector was within spec, and it's cleaner and easier to tie the pig tails together that I'd just use one of the voltage outputs. If it ends up being problematic I'll tie it back to the + terminal instead.

I probably wouldn't recommend it as a best practice.