Future of the Omni controller

[picta]

No, you can't.  You can read status, and perform actions, but no way to indicate a zone is playing, for example, or what it is playing.  That functionality doesn't exist in the HAI protocol between the panel and HaikuHelper.

When you saying "the zone is playing", are you referring to the zone being turned on or the source being active? I can turn the zone on/off, and set a flag to indicate the source's playing status for example. The panel does not have a way to get the metadata, but if you have an iDock, you can get what's playing shown on omnitouch, and I believe it is also possible in the latest Haiku version.

 

[jcd]

...but if you have an iDock, you can get what's playing shown on omnitouch, and I believe it is also possible in the latest Haiku version.

 
picta, could you please clarify this statement? I am KEENLY interested in the HAI i-dock product, but my understanding was that the metadata display "broke" with the new OmniTouch7 screens (i.e., it only displays cover art, track info, etc. on the old 5.7e touchscreens and won't work with the new OT7). Is this true?
 
Thanks!

 

[justsam]

I realize this is an old topic, but I am curious as to what those closer to the industry than I think of this topic today?
 
In the past I have had two different OMNI Pros IIs and for me they did all I wanted or could think of doing, and were very reliable.  I had the wired ALC for light control which was also pretty much bulletproof.
 
I just do not want to get stuck with yesterdays news if an OMNI III is close.  I also suspect it is a different world at HAI post Leviton, and that too concerns me. 

 

[pete_c]

Welcome to the Cocoontech Forum justsam. 
 
There are many HAI users here and many new combo automation / security folks thinking about Omni panels asking the same asking the same questions.
 
If you have been historically happy with the Omni II panels and they worked for you and you are familiar with the Omni II stuff then I would personally just get another one.
 
Note that this is my personal opinon.  Why reinvent the wheel of your Omni panel knowledgebase at this time?  It seems from what you wrote that you are a seasoned HAI person.
 
HAI / Leviton has changed but I do not think that Leviton is going away anytime soon.
 
One vendor / reseller here on the Cocoontech forum has mentioned that there are good things coming. 
 
That is today what I see as yesterday's news.  I haven't read anything new relating to an Omni III.
 
Two new Omni II products for the HAI panels have surfaced; IE: Omnitouch 7 and the HAI email board.  I do not know of any other products.
 
No new software and no updating of older software that I have seen.

 

[BobS0327]

I just do not want to get stuck with yesterdays news if an OMNI III is close.  I also suspect it is a different world at HAI post Leviton, and that too concerns me.

 
I've been hearing the rumor of a Omni Pro III for more than a decade.  To me, it's nothing more than an urban myth.
 
I've had the Omni Pro II since circa 2002.  Upgraded to the flash version around 2006.  It has been an extremely reliable controller throughout the years.  So, if I had to get another controller, it would definitely be the Omni Pro II.  Yea, it's an old dinosaur compared to what is coming onto the HA market today.  But my "old dinosaur" works fine for me in reliably handling all my automation and security requirements.
 
Finally, I would be extremely cautious about being one of the first to acquire an OP III controller if it ever materializes.  You may become one of Leviton/HAI's "alpha" testers  in order to eliminate all the defects of the new controller.  I have personally experienced Leviton/HAI's total lack of support for end users. With that said, I would not upgrade to the OP III until I was totally satisfied it is a stable platform.  I just don't want to deal with the total lack of support from Leviton/HAI.
 
 
 
 

 

[ano]

I've been hearing the rumor of a Omni Pro III for more than a decade.

 
If one existed before Leviton acquired HAI, it was likely scrapped when that occurred. A Leviton-based Omni Pro III would likely be a very different beast.

 

[BobS0327]

If one existed before Leviton acquired HAI, it was likely scrapped when that occurred. A Leviton-based Omni Pro III would likely be a very different beast.

 
 
A Leviton-based Pro III controller.  Now that  is a real scary thought.
 
A quote from CEPro   http://www.cepro.com/article/leviton_acquires_home_automation_inc/

On its  own, (Leviton) the company has tried many times to launch a comprehensive home control line, scrapping at least three major initiatives along the way. Eventually they would buy HAI, and now they have.

 
Leviton did initially allow HAI to work independently for about a year after the acquisition but abruptly shut it down and merged it into Leviton.  So, it's possible that Leviton is building their own version of the OP III.   Would I want a Leviton built OP III controller?  No Thanks!!!  I'll pass.

 

[StarTrekDoors]

Leviton is not marketing the HAI product line any longer and seems to be pushing the Lumina market more.  It is important to remember that while many would like to see a very powerful OPIII - the reality is that the kids are buying into apps and watches, not automation.  They aren't impressed with lights that turn off and on by themselves, they don't care about security and cloud risks - they just want an app that turns on the lights or plays low quality music.  Advertising is what drives the market and kids following the fads are where the small dollars are today.  Apple and Facebook have convinced a large population that $1.99 app is the future - it is not and someday the kids will realize this and teach their kids not to waste money on dollar here dollar there purchases. 
 
Leviton Marketing has a huge potential customer base with money - as our population of elderly expands; those are the people who will buy into more security - kids don't want home surveillance cameras - adults do. Kids don't care about landscape lighting or the pool pump turning on in a freeze - the adults do though. The problem is the marketing, not the product. 
 
The product line will be there to support the marketing for most any company and that could be true for Leviton too.  But for Leviton, their marketing team is stuck - they need new blood that understands that "real" marketing is needed.  They need to get away from the old ways of doing business as the security and automation market is more than light switches, electrical outlets, and wall plates - the limited something they understand, the automation they do not.  Yes - expensive control panels are harder to sell that 50 cent wall plates but with the buzz words of the competition driving the market, Leviton just needs something bold that can "pop" and drive business home and I believe only new blood will make that happen.
 
Could you imaging the advertisement for an OPIII?  Showing a light turning on by voice or an app, seemingly just like the competition, then the commercial's field of view expanding to show the entire house - with lights popping everywhere, sprinklers popping outside, security cameras being viewed on OT7's on the wall, a family using their phone to set a movie night scene; leading to a whole verse of commercials featured around each family member.  Each commercial ended with get the free app; 
 
Houses and buildings are being erected all the time.  Another 2nd commercial line could focus on the start of building by having the core OPIII technology preinstalled; the plumber speaking to the electrician about how cool that homebuilder's house is; the electrician mentioning how much lower the electric bill would be and how quickly the system pays for itself;  Another leg of the commercial with a low quality security installer next door looking at the coolness of the system at the OPIII house, perhaps with the soon to be owner's child explaining how everything works to the impressed installer.
 
Anyway, it's just currently the rumor mill about an OPIII.  Announcing a new upcoming system would NOT hurt current sales - people are very concerned and no news and no advertising scares customers and installers alike. 
 
The Omnipro line is old and a refresh and a statement from Leviton could only help to drive additional sales.  People are buying the gadgets they know about - not the ones that are unknown.  If Leviton reads this thread someday, hopefully that person will get in touch with senior management about getting inspired to bring more greatness to Leviton, otherwise, it'll be HD DVD vs. Blu Ray.  I'm onboard with an OPIII
 
2¢

 

[pete_c]

the reality is that the kids are buying into apps and watches, not automation.
 
It is understood. 
 
You have provided a bit of insight to us mentioning the push of Leviton Lumina market.
 
How do you know this?  Are you a reseller or support or alarm company person?
 
Can you tell us anymore about what Leviton is doing with HAI these days?
 
 
 
Personally and not really relating to the OP....
 
I am curious and wondering if you know how many OmniPro panels are out there today still being utilized?
 
I know I have had my two panels now for over 10 years and I have conversed with a few folks here and there that are still using their OmniPro panels from the 1990's.

 

[ano]

Leviton is not marketing the HAI product line any longer and seems to be pushing the Lumina market more.  It is important to remember that while many would like to see a very powerful OPIII - the reality is that the kids are buying into apps and watches, not automation.  They aren't impressed with lights that turn off and on by themselves, they don't care about security and cloud risks - they just want an app that turns on the lights or plays low quality music.  Advertising is what drives the market and kids following the fads are where the small dollars are today.  Apple and Facebook have convinced a large population that $1.99 app is the future - it is not and someday the kids will realize this and teach their kids not to waste money on dollar here dollar there purchases. 
 
Leviton Marketing has a huge potential customer base with money - as our population of elderly expands; those are the people who will buy into more security - kids don't want home surveillance cameras - adults do. Kids don't care about landscape lighting or the pool pump turning on in a freeze - the adults do though. The problem is the marketing, not the product. 
 
The product line will be there to support the marketing for most any company and that could be true for Leviton too.  But for Leviton, their marketing team is stuck - they need new blood that understands that "real" marketing is needed.  They need to get away from the old ways of doing business as the security and automation market is more than light switches, electrical outlets, and wall plates - the limited something they understand, the automation they do not.  Yes - expensive control panels are harder to sell that 50 cent wall plates but with the buzz words of the competition driving the market, Leviton just needs something bold that can "pop" and drive business home and I believe only new blood will make that happen.
 
Could you imaging the advertisement for an OPIII?  Showing a light turning on by voice or an app, seemingly just like the competition, then the commercial's field of view expanding to show the entire house - with lights popping everywhere, sprinklers popping outside, security cameras being viewed on OT7's on the wall, a family using their phone to set a movie night scene; leading to a whole verse of commercials featured around each family member.  Each commercial ended with get the free app; 
 
Houses and buildings are being erected all the time.  Another 2nd commercial line could focus on the start of building by having the core OPIII technology preinstalled; the plumber speaking to the electrician about how cool that homebuilder's house is; the electrician mentioning how much lower the electric bill would be and how quickly the system pays for itself;  Another leg of the commercial with a low quality security installer next door looking at the coolness of the system at the OPIII house, perhaps with the soon to be owner's child explaining how everything works to the impressed installer.
 
Anyway, it's just currently the rumor mill about an OPIII.  Announcing a new upcoming system would NOT hurt current sales - people are very concerned and no news and no advertising scares customers and installers alike. 
 
The Omnipro line is old and a refresh and a statement from Leviton could only help to drive additional sales.  People are buying the gadgets they know about - not the ones that are unknown.  If Leviton reads this thread someday, hopefully that person will get in touch with senior management about getting inspired to bring more greatness to Leviton, otherwise, it'll be HD DVD vs. Blu Ray.  I'm onboard with an OPIII
 
2¢

I don't disagree with you, but also keep in mind there are many HAI and Leviton installers around that are always looking for new devices to install in the customer's homes. Chances are a phone app is not going to cut it. I would be very surprised if Leviton wasn't working on the next thing, but this certainly isn't an easy task and they have no need to rush.  I don't know if the HAI have any input or not. They did buy HAI for something, but its not clear what that is.

 

[BobS0327]

IMHO, Leviton bought HAI for the money.
 
HAI was sold to Leviton in August 2012, a company whose primary expertise is selling receptacles and switches. Leviton initially made the correct business decision in allowing HAI to work independently of Leviton for about a year. Leviton then did the unthinkable. They shutdown HAI and merged the HAI operations into their own.
 
A switch and receptacle peddler has taken development control away from a team that for the most part started and helped build the industry. That same switch and receptacle peddler also has a very poor technological track record.
 
We now have a stodgy old company, severely lacking in innovation and creativity, trying to squeeze as much revenue out of a product before abandoning it. The current OPII controller is quite capable of handling, security, lighting control and energy management for residential and light commercial installations for now and years to come.. So, it's essentially a “cash cow” in this particular segment of the building industry. Why mess with a product that is substantially contributing to the bottom line? 
 
Leviton has taken an industry leading controller and reduced to nothing more than a revenue generating commodity.
 

 

[ano]

IMHO, Leviton bought HAI for the money.
 
HAI was sold to Leviton in August 2012, a company whose primary expertise is selling receptacles and switches. Leviton initially made the correct business decision in allowing HAI to work independently of Leviton for about a year. Leviton then did the unthinkable. They shutdown HAI and merged the HAI operations into their own.
 
A switch and receptacle peddler has taken development control away from a team that for the most part started and helped build the industry. That same switch and receptacle peddler also has a very poor technological track record.
 
We now have a stodgy old company, severely lacking in innovation and creativity, trying to squeeze as much revenue out of a product before abandoning it. The current OPII controller is quite capable of handling, security, lighting control and energy management for residential and light commercial installations for now and years to come.. So, it's essentially a “cash cow” in this particular segment of the building industry. Why mess with a product that is substantially contributing to the bottom line? 
 
Leviton has taken an industry leading controller and reduced to nothing more than a revenue generating commodity.

First, I definitely would not say Leviton is abandoning home automation, and certainly I would not say its an old "stodgy" company. This just shows you haven't done your research.
 
First, you did see the OmniStat3?  Right? http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=70587&minisite=10251
They continue to enhance the productline, and are producing products that small HAI never could.  Also, no one buys a company "for the money." If you understand how companies are valued, you'd know that isn't true.  Certainly HAI at the time was not that valuable, and they were lacking the resources to do much. The resources that Leviton has adds great value to HAI.
 
Leviton is a multi billion dollar company founded in 1906.   If you go to their home page and click on "Lighting Automation" you get to the HAI equipment.  For a company wanting to "abandon" a product, they seem to have it front and center on their web page. 
 
The fact of the matter is that HAI never had enough cash or software expertise to move forward from where they were, so without Leviton, they were clearly on the downward path.  Jay knew that and smartly agreed to be acquired by Leviton. The year Leviton kept HAI intact was also no random, it was likely in the contract. When companies are purchased they often include a transition plan. 
 
The fact is Leviton is a very savy company that knows their market well.  They are in no rush to release a home automation product that will fail, but that doesn't mean they are completely uninterested in it either.

 

[kurtmccaslin]

My feeling is that Bitwise is becoming the product that Omni 3 was going to be.   I see Leviton making Bitwise upgrades every month or two.   It is now connected to the Omni, Hifi 2, Omnitouch 7, Omnibus, etc.   It would make sense to build their slick HMI in Bitwise as opposed to a UL listed security panel.    Omni 2 would stay in place as a robust security and automation component using Bitwise as the HMI.   This is only speculation on my part, but it seems to make sense.
 
I was waiting for Omni 3 a year ago.   I gave up and pulled the trigger on an Omni 2.   So far I feel that was a good decision.
 
Is anybody here using Bitwise?  

 

[ano]

It almost seems like Bitwise and HAI could complement each other and work together without too much work.  Omni could handle the UL part, and Bitwise could handle the more "smart" functions.

 

[BobS0327]

The Omni is fully accessible from Bitwise via the Project Editor.  Just input IP and key.  The communication is Omni Link Protocol II.  That would give you  access to lighting, security  etc. But you need an Omni panel.