Getting started in HTPC's

[IVB]

What, no one thought to recommend an antenna?

I got a CM4228, which admittedly is large & ugly, but it's one of the best rated around. I put it on top of my roof, ran a single RG6 into a splitter, ran that into an HDHomeRun so I can record two shows at once. SageTV supports that out of the box, so bada bing - you got dual HD OTA recording. Perhaps $100 for the antenna and parts, $90ish for SageTV. Although, you may as well get the HDExtender or MVP bundle so you get a cheap client out of it.

Those clients are controllable via the web to boot, so you could put them in a central room, and use a web browser. Heck, you could even embed it inside a HomeSeer web thingey, so you could use a PPC/UMPC/etc to control other stuff at the same time as you're controlling the MVP/HDExtender!

 

[Rupp]

OK guys I'm really confused now. I have a Hi-Def antenna in the attic already and enjoy 6 OTA channels and I knew I needed a TV tuner card BUT I also thought that I needed one of the hi end video cards to do the decoding/streaming. I have a PC in the closet running my weather software and doing nothing else. It's a 3.4ghz PC but has a low end MB and on board graphics and only has and AGP 8X slot. I know it can run the TV card but what about the decoding/streaming part?

 

[Sacedog]

What, no one thought to recommend an antenna?

I got a CM4228, which admittedly is large & ugly, but it's one of the best rated around. I put it on top of my roof, ran a single RG6 into a splitter, ran that into an HDHomeRun so I can record two shows at once. SageTV supports that out of the box, so bada bing - you got dual HD OTA recording.

Have you heard of anyone installing these in their attic, with any success? I will be unable to put one of these on my roof. The other potential problem for this in my attic, is that I will have radiant barrier roof sheathing covering my entire roof. I'm not sure if this will screw up the reception or not, but I'm thinking it might.

 

[Rupp]

What, no one thought to recommend an antenna?

I got a CM4228, which admittedly is large & ugly, but it's one of the best rated around.

I have the 4 bow tie version of this antenna in my attic and it works great.

 

[IVB]

For indoor antennas, i've heard rave reviews about the Radio Shack Silver Sensor. They're discussed in the AVSForum HDTV Reception Hardware . I do hear of multipath issues occasionally, directionality is important with HDTV antennas to avoid that.

Check antennaweb.org for suggestions on what types of cameras they'd recommend - absolutely great utility.

OK guys I'm really confused now. I have a Hi-Def antenna in the attic already and enjoy 6 OTA channels and I knew I needed a TV tuner card BUT I also thought that I needed one of the hi end video cards to do the decoding/streaming. I have a PC in the closet running my weather software and doing nothing else. It's a 3.4ghz PC but has a low end MB and on board graphics and only has and AGP 8X slot. I know it can run the TV card but what about the decoding/streaming part?

Not entirely true. Your tuner card puts the stream onto disk, then you just need a regular video card for display purposes. But, you will want a solid video card as it's the highest impact on your picture quality.

You can get something like the ATI 9800 Pro AGP card to go into that PC to do the video rendering. I used one of those, great graphics for a great price. Obviously more expensive options are out there, but you would be fine with that.

 

[bfisher]

Thanks Bruce for the description. Those things are kinda expensive, wouldn't it be cheaper to run HDMI cables from the PC to the TV?

If you run HDMI cables from the PC, your PC is a single video source. If you make the PC a server and use Extenders, your PC can serve many TVs. I have 5 TVs running off of 1 PC (currently 1 HD Extender, 4 SD... I am waiting for the HD extenders to get back in stock to get 3 more to replace SDs). I have 6 tuners in my PC (3 OTA HD, 3 DirecTV). I also rip my DVDs to my PC. That makes my PC the ultimate video source... I can have every TV in the house on something different while recording 6 things at once (it works... I've tried it!).

The video quality on the HD extender is very very good. I have been very impressed with it.

Good point on the extenders and multi locations. I still have the blinders on and am trying to wrap my brain around this whole HTPC concept and tunneled in on one TV. This is really a confusing "bunch of stuff" HTPC vs TIVO vs DVR vs etc. I really just wanted an inexpensive way to record OTA high def material. It's never that easy is it :lol:

I used to have a DirecTivo which was great (2 tuners in it). Now that I have this Sage box... no competition. The biggest advantages are:
- multiple inputs (as many as you want)
- multiple outputs (via extenders)
- HD (currently only OTA or QAM (unscrambled cable) but several more options coming)
- transcoding (my SD TVs watch HD source material. My server transcodes on the fly HD material to SD... and it looks very good (a step down from HD, but definitely better than my DirecTV picture)
- DVDs (on any TV at any time)
- web videos (YouTube, etc) (I don't use this function)
- Pictures (my family picture collection is our screensaver. My kids love to sit an watch it... but it's nice when family is over and you want to show pictures... pull them up on the TV (any TV))
- Commercial skipping - requires 3rd party software to decode and mark commercials, but Sage can automatically use these markers and skip commercials. Works quite well...

What, no one thought to recommend an antenna?

I have this antenna and been very pleased with it. I mounted it outdoors but it looks pretty clean and discreet. Doesn't bother my wife at all (about the size of our satellite dish and more or less blends into the trees in the background).

OK guys I'm really confused now. I have a Hi-Def antenna in the attic already and enjoy 6 OTA channels and I knew I needed a TV tuner card BUT I also thought that I needed one of the hi end video cards to do the decoding/streaming. I have a PC in the closet running my weather software and doing nothing else. It's a 3.4ghz PC but has a low end MB and on board graphics and only has and AGP 8X slot. I know it can run the TV card but what about the decoding/streaming part?

You can go this route... but then your PC is a single source. If you use extenders, you're not using the on-board graphics of the PC and it can serve multiple TVs (I don't know how many and how many sources... I don't know if it's a low end PC what it can handle... mine's a quad-core fairly high-end box but I've never gone more than ~40% of usage)

 

[Rupp]

Guys,
Thanks for walking me through this. Now which extenders are you guys using and I'll "study" up on them.

 

[CollinR]

I use the Hauppauge Media MVPs for SD TVs, I like a PC client for HD as I like to surf the net while watching TV.


You can run your HDMI from the server to your main HD TV and then put the cheaper MVPs at your SD TVs.

If you do that get a SnapStream FireFly remote, and consider a USB cable to bring the RF reciever closer to the display.

 

[IVB]

I also use the sage mvp, but the issue is that all transcoding (ie, display hd recorded shows on your sdtv) requires a powerful server.
I missed the boat on the sage hdextender as they ran out of stock in 7 days ($199 is a great deal) - those supposedly need no server-side transcoding, and can output composite so they may be a good option for sdtv's also. in that case, a low end server would be just fine. I am on the waitlist, should have it in 4 weeks, so I can confirm this then.

 

[Rupp]

I also use the sage mvp, but the issue is that all transcoding (ie, display hd recorded shows on your sdtv) requires a powerful server.
I missed the boat on the sage hdextender as they ran out of stock in 7 days ($199 is a great deal) - those supposedly need no server-side transcoding, and can output composite so they may be a good option for sdtv's also. in that case, a low end server would be just fine. I am on the waitlist, should have it in 4 weeks, so I can confirm this then.

Please keep us updated. Are these guys the only supplier of these HD extenders?

 

[CollinR]

Word on the street is it is a Syabas unit. However nobody has really researched it fully and it wouldn't save you any money anyway as the Syabas is ~$180 and the SageTV OEM unit is $199 but it INCLUDES a $30 client seat. So it might save Bruce a few bucks as he already has enough client seats from his MVPs to startup the SageTV OEM unit is cheaper.


Which BTW Bruce I might be interested in buying some of the licenses you don't need when you get your HD units.

 

[Rupp]

One more question. Do these extenders bring the windows desktop to the TV? If they do not how does one manage the software to select shows to record? Also is there a monthly charge for the TV grid information when using SageTV?

 

[bfisher]

I only use the Sage extenders. The SD one is a relabeled Hauppauge MVP, and the HD is a Sage built unit (or maybe not, but it's not widely available if not). I buy them direct from Sage (I like giving them business - they deserve it).

The HD Extender works in whatever resolution you need... including SD. I only tested it just to see if it worked in SD (it did) and did the transcoding there (instead of the server). I have since plugged in a HDMI cable and send 720p to my den TV. Picture is very nice and clean.

Which BTW Bruce I might be interested in buying some of the licenses you don't need when you get your HD units.

That might work. I'll let you know once I start upgrading the SD boxes. I have 4 HD TVs and I'm sure I'll eventually upgrade the extenders for all 4. For now, I'm keeping hold of my 1 extra SD box (and license) "just in case" something breaks.

Do these extenders bring the windows desktop to the TV? If they do not how does one manage the software to select shows to record? Also is there a monthly charge for the TV grid information when using SageTV?

No, you don't see windows with the extenders. It's running Sage only (I assume it's a Linux box or something... don't know as you only deal with Sage on it). That would be the one advantage of having a Windows PC instead of an extender... but I have enough PCs in my house that Windows is always nearby :lol:

The Sage software is very easy to select shows to record. You can set up Favorites, etc. just like you would expect. It's very smart and easy. The one negative (my opinion) is that Live TV is not intuitive or fast (not good for surfing). I don't let my in-laws or babysitters use Sage since Live TV is not easy. I almost never use LiveTV so maybe it's not too bad... it's that I'm just not used to it.

There is no monthly charges for Sage or grid guide info.

 

[68sting]

I've been a little confused on were I would use Sage.

I have 1 hr250 and 1 Hr21 that go in to component video amps. It shoots them to multiple tvs in the house. I also have an ota, standard directv box and cctv cameras modulated and sent to all the tvs via coax. We watch most everything in HD with the most being the networks, ESPN, Food network,USA,TBS,TNT,FX. My local ABC is still not HD so that I have to get through Directv. How and why would I want Sage? How did you get your 3 Directv units into your pc? I'm always looking to improve my set up but I'm not sure how or why I would integrate Sage.

Thanks
Lance

 

[ultrajones]

One more question. Do these extenders bring the windows desktop to the TV? If they do not how does one manage the software to select shows to record? Also is there a monthly charge for the TV grid information when using SageTV?

Hey Rupp. I sold all my Tivos and ended up building 3 identical HTPC's running Vista Media Center. One of them happends to run HomeSeer I have used almost every other solution out there (including Linux varieties) and found the Vista solution to be the best (IMO). For my Samsung HDTV, I use an Nvidia 7600GS via a VGA cable. For my TV's not connected to a PC, I use an XBox 360 and a Linksys DMA2100 (HDTV extender). I am pretty happy with the Linksys device, but have not tried it using the HDMI connector.

On the PC side, I use the Hauppauge 500 dual tuner card. The Hauppauge 1600/1800 also works well which includes the ability to record digital HDTV. Vista will support 2 tuners of each type (analog and digital). If I had to do it over again, I would have purchased 2 Hauppauge 1800's instead of the Hauppauge 500.

Noise is also a design consideration for HTPC, so I installed equipment known to be near silent. Send me an email if you are interested in the parts list.

Good luck with your HTPC!

Regards,
Ultrajones