How are you balancing insulating attic with constantly running new wires?
- Thread starter IVB
- Start date
pete_c
Guru
Don't run any cables and try using wireless widgets configuring whatever events you want.
See if it fits in your home automated environment.
Here have turned down the follow me lighting stuff due to WAF. (maybe age / not liking the house to make automated decisions relating to lighting?)
IVB
Senior Member
pete_c said:
Well, the ROI is tough for wireless, sensors are a lot more. Wired motions are $20 (and consistent), water/etc are almost always even less. The wireless stuff typically starts at $50 and could be more.
EDIT: BTW on the WAF stuff: My response is consistent: "If you would turn off the lights by hand the system wouldn't have to do it. I'll disable it, but if the lights come back on its going back on.
its all controllable via a smartphone screen, this is a pic I put up on CQC a while back. The green/red means the follow-me is enabled or disabled, the # to the right is the timeout.
drvnbysound
Senior Member
IVB said:
True. Here is a Honeywell pet-immune PIR for $45. So apples to apples, yes the wireless ones are always more. But if you already have the wireless receiver it's a different comparison, because that wired sensor isn't just $20 - it's $20 + the cost of wire (sure, cheap) and the time to run it. At that point, $45 for a wireless sensor starts to become pretty appealing. Especially if you start talking about the impacts to insulation and other factors.
And sure, you do run into the battery "issue" but I've seen wireless sensors last 3-5 years (or more).
Just more factors to consider...
IVB
Senior Member
drvnbysound said:
Actually I have the Elk two way wireless receiver already. (Plus the older 1 way one but I pulled that). However I own an insane amount of wiring of all types. The cost isn't the issue, its reliability. (And now will it be harder to run given new insulation)
The two way stuff seems good so far, but knowing the hardwire will always work is nice. Plus given my current physical structure and easy access to both subfloor via crawlspace and ceiling via attic, its absolutely trivial to run more wire. Except for now that i'm finally swapping out blow-in for rolls, hence the thread making me struggle
pete_c
Guru
@IVB
Personally I am wired here and there. I do have installed but not really utilized the HAI Wireless devices needed to do wireless with my OPII panels. I just do not use them today. Well one I do use for two wireless devices.
I also have one HAI subpanel installed that I do use today.
What I was saying relating to automation in your home was that if you wanted to test automation using sensors; then try the wireless to get automated fast (and test stuff) in a few minutes while you are cabling which can be a slow process.
Here very slowly I wired the home in stages. Some runs took me all day while other runs took only a few minutes. I enjoyed doing it; but that me.
On a new home build just DIY wired everything in 2-3 days. It was a PITA to do. Help was an alarm company prewiring for the panel which really helped me out a lot. Most of the cables run today are terminated but much still remains unterminated.
Personally I am wired here and there. I do have installed but not really utilized the HAI Wireless devices needed to do wireless with my OPII panels. I just do not use them today. Well one I do use for two wireless devices.
I also have one HAI subpanel installed that I do use today.
What I was saying relating to automation in your home was that if you wanted to test automation using sensors; then try the wireless to get automated fast (and test stuff) in a few minutes while you are cabling which can be a slow process.
Here very slowly I wired the home in stages. Some runs took me all day while other runs took only a few minutes. I enjoyed doing it; but that me.
On a new home build just DIY wired everything in 2-3 days. It was a PITA to do. Help was an alarm company prewiring for the panel which really helped me out a lot. Most of the cables run today are terminated but much still remains unterminated.
Wrong system.
Dual band, dual co-ordinated mesh networking. $19. Reliable as hell.
Dual band, dual co-ordinated mesh networking. $19. Reliable as hell.
Code:
http://www.amazon.com/Insteon-Wireless-Motion-Sensor-Retail/dp/B00LLQ0XQS/ref=sr_1_2?s=security-surveillance&ie=UTF8&qid=1441240078&sr=1-2&keywords=Insteon&pebp=1441240106179&perid=1BKG6SYMJPDEHGXXX7PYIVB
Senior Member
My house is notoriously wireless unfriendly. Plaster/lathe, quasi-high density, overhead electric lines, etc.
What others claim is reliable usually doesn't work. IE, I think Hue is a piece of junk, it doesn't work for crap in my house. 2.4GHz networks struggle. 5 GHz barely makes it past 1 wall, I had to put in 3 APs to cover a 40 foot by 100 foot property (house is 25x75).
What others claim is reliable usually doesn't work. IE, I think Hue is a piece of junk, it doesn't work for crap in my house. 2.4GHz networks struggle. 5 GHz barely makes it past 1 wall, I had to put in 3 APs to cover a 40 foot by 100 foot property (house is 25x75).
For insulation, you could, albeit more expensive, assuming you have a full vapor barrier, get encapsulated batts and then move them as you need to and put them back. I also remember one of the big boxes selling denim or a no-itch fiberglas product. Can't remember what it is, I'm sure I have a sample piece somewhere here.
IVB
Senior Member
DELInstallations said:
Sadly, no vapor barrier. The lathe is connected directly to the joists, then plaster on top. I need to get faced insulation. I'm leaning towards faced R13 for between joists as it'll line up almost exactly to the top of the joists, then unfaced R19 perpendicular to that. I might experiment with a 16 inch wide plywood path down the middle with R19 on top of it, as I can cut a 4x8 into 3 pieces so i'd only need 2-3 pieces.
It won't be considered a clean R30 or higher due to the air leakage, but hopefully that small amount won't be too bad. If it is, i'll yank it, I can always use plywood somewhere.
"My house is notoriously wireless unfriendly. Plaster/lathe, quasi-high density, overhead electric lines, etc.
What others claim is reliable usually doesn't work. IE, I think Hue is a piece of junk, it doesn't work for crap in my house. 2.4GHz networks struggle. 5 GHz barely makes it past 1 wall, I had to put in 3 APs to cover a 40 foot by 100 foot property (house is 25x75).
"
Then you install one dual band device in a room and run the Insteon MS signal as a powerline comm system.
I had a Cisco $300 router that struggled with 2.4 and 5GHz. My new Netgear router is accessible within 0.5km now.
What others claim is reliable usually doesn't work. IE, I think Hue is a piece of junk, it doesn't work for crap in my house. 2.4GHz networks struggle. 5 GHz barely makes it past 1 wall, I had to put in 3 APs to cover a 40 foot by 100 foot property (house is 25x75).
"
Then you install one dual band device in a room and run the Insteon MS signal as a powerline comm system.
I had a Cisco $300 router that struggled with 2.4 and 5GHz. My new Netgear router is accessible within 0.5km now.
NeverDie
Senior Member
Why is there a perceived need to "balance" insulation with running new wire? Most LV wire can go pretty much wherever: under, over, or through the insulation. So, is the concern mainly how you move yourself safely through increasing amounts of insulation as you deploy the wire through the attic, or to avoid stepping on or tripping on wire, or what?
I've seen advertised some kind of modified crossbow for firing a pull string from one end of an attic space to another, and it seemed rather gimmicky to me. However, maybe that's an option for you, assuming you always have have access to both sides (a rather shaky assumption).
I've seen advertised some kind of modified crossbow for firing a pull string from one end of an attic space to another, and it seemed rather gimmicky to me. However, maybe that's an option for you, assuming you always have have access to both sides (a rather shaky assumption).
