I have pictures of every single wall in the house taken the day before the sheetrock went up. This has saved me so many times. I've had to edit where network wires come in and out of the house, and I can literally look at the picture, count studs, drill a hole, and pull the wire out.
If you were building a house, what Home automation system would you install?
- Thread starter hebrewhammer
- Start date
But to answer the OP's question: if I was building a house, I would plan for a hard-wired lighting system, HAI OP2 controller with Haiku on iPads, hard-wired Omnistat thermostats, whole house audio, centralized video over cat6/hdmi/conduit and automated window coverings with RS485 control....because this is what I have right now 
wuench
Senior Member
Yeah and I have an Elk but if I had to do it over again I would look harder at HAI. The M1 is a great product but it is starting to show it's age, with poor support for things like email, no ability to customize voice, MS Access based configuration program, etc. It's interfaces and higher level functions are in bad need of a refresh. I don't know if HAI is any better but it seems like there is a lot more activity going on at HAI and maybe a larger user base, although it may just be a grass is greener type of deal...
hebrewhammer
New Member
Wow what an overwhelming amount of responses! Thank you everybody!! I am taking notes of everything that you all are recommending. I have a great idea of what wiring needs to be installed and will be doing so. Would anybody mind sharing what set-up's they currently have? All the way from the automation system to each controller and software etc. Im trying to price things out and see what is the general consensus around specific systems. Pics would be great aswell! Thank you!!
wuench
Senior Member
There are some outdated pics to some of my setup on my website (link in my signature).
Basically I have:
Structured wiring is done with a SuperPro panel (I DO NOT Recommend)
ElkM1 - Security and Control (Irrigation, Garage door, HVAC using RCS TStat etc)
ISY - Lighting controller/Insteon Lighting, with Elk module
Obi110 - Voip
CQC Automation Software - Brings it all together with rules and nice interface
Android Tablet to access CQC (using RDP)
IPhone access to CQC through it's IPhone RIVA Client
Also have eKeypad as backup access to Elk via IPhone
CQC controls the following:
All PC's via EventGhost (Wake/Standby/Reboot, some app control)
Elk (ethernet)
ISY (ethernet)
Denon Amps (ethernet)
Projector - Epson Cinema 6100 (RS232)
Sharp TV (RS232)
DirecTV DVRs (ethernet)
Sony DVD Changer (RS232)
XBox 360 (IR via USB-UIRT)
XBMC
Boxee Box
UPS's and APC Power Strip via SNMP
Email using POP3
Weather Info (Weather Underground)
Basically the Elk has low level rules for security, HVAC, irrigation, etc. All lighting based rules are on the ISY. So if, for example a door is opened or there is motion in a room, the ISY controls the light even though the sensors are on the Elk through the Elk module. More complex stuff is done through rules in CQC. The reason the rules are where they are, spread across devices is for reliability and performance. It can sometimes cause too much delay to have a rule trigger actions through too much stuff. Right now I do voice announcements using the Elk, I would like to convert to whole home audio and let CQC do the talking some day so I am not limited to fixed text.
If I had to do it over again, I would look at HAI, and probably look at ZWave/Vera instead of the Insteon/ISY combo. Insteon just isn't reliable enough for me, ISY rules can get way too complex for the task involved and Insteon doesn't integrate with new things like door locks, etc. But Universal Devices (ISY), CQC and Elk support are all top notch.
Basically I have:
Structured wiring is done with a SuperPro panel (I DO NOT Recommend)
ElkM1 - Security and Control (Irrigation, Garage door, HVAC using RCS TStat etc)
ISY - Lighting controller/Insteon Lighting, with Elk module
Obi110 - Voip
CQC Automation Software - Brings it all together with rules and nice interface
Android Tablet to access CQC (using RDP)
IPhone access to CQC through it's IPhone RIVA Client
Also have eKeypad as backup access to Elk via IPhone
CQC controls the following:
All PC's via EventGhost (Wake/Standby/Reboot, some app control)
Elk (ethernet)
ISY (ethernet)
Denon Amps (ethernet)
Projector - Epson Cinema 6100 (RS232)
Sharp TV (RS232)
DirecTV DVRs (ethernet)
Sony DVD Changer (RS232)
XBox 360 (IR via USB-UIRT)
XBMC
Boxee Box
UPS's and APC Power Strip via SNMP
Email using POP3
Weather Info (Weather Underground)
Basically the Elk has low level rules for security, HVAC, irrigation, etc. All lighting based rules are on the ISY. So if, for example a door is opened or there is motion in a room, the ISY controls the light even though the sensors are on the Elk through the Elk module. More complex stuff is done through rules in CQC. The reason the rules are where they are, spread across devices is for reliability and performance. It can sometimes cause too much delay to have a rule trigger actions through too much stuff. Right now I do voice announcements using the Elk, I would like to convert to whole home audio and let CQC do the talking some day so I am not limited to fixed text.
If I had to do it over again, I would look at HAI, and probably look at ZWave/Vera instead of the Insteon/ISY combo. Insteon just isn't reliable enough for me, ISY rules can get way too complex for the task involved and Insteon doesn't integrate with new things like door locks, etc. But Universal Devices (ISY), CQC and Elk support are all top notch.
I have a system with many similarities to Wuench, except that I used HomeSeer instead of CQC as the "higher logic brain". But I'll concentrate most of this discussion on what I consider the more important aspects of my system...
My Elk (for security and some inputs) has been extremely reliable but I echo the fact that they have been stuck in time in terms of updates to their interface and some technology (for reasons I just don't understand), and require a Windows -based software to program the system. They deserve consideration as a security system that can interface with HA, but their lack of innovation worries me to the point I would also look at HAI if I were building new, and decide between the two. I can't make a recommendation beyond that except to say that security MUST be rock solid and I strongly advise it be capable of operating on its own if other components "go down".
Lighting for me is Insteon and an ISY. I despised Insteon for about two years in a previous house but they largely cleaned up their act and dramatically improved their quality to the point I installed them in our current house and have been generally pleased. I went with them because it was an existing house so a rewire was not practical. Zwave was my other consideration but I was concerned about the controller problems others seemed to be having with it at the time, and the mesh network just wasn't what I personally wanted. I have nothing against it, though, and others will be a better guide re that. For NEW construction you can't beat a hardwired system for reliability, but you must get things right the first time and plan ahead for almost anything you want for the future (wires being the limiting factor). The prior owner of our previous house had installed some hard-wired system that I can't even remember now, and by the time we bought it ~3 years later it was essentially impossible to upgrade so that it could work with a HA system. We ripped out thousands of $ worth of new-looking but obsolete hardware and put in Insteon. If I had to do it all again Insteon would be on my list along with Zwave largely because I I could reconfigure and add as our needs change over the years (and they do, more than you think, unless you automate everything possible the first time). And even then it's a gamble.
For lighting control I also use an ISY and it has become my favorite part of the system. Almost as reliable as the Elk, and the best customer support imaginable. And they continue to innovate, with great response to the needs of their community. I tie it into the Elk with their Elk module (via IP), and it's as if it were a single, integrated system. In fact, I'm in the process of upgrading to a new ISY 994 that adds Zigbee support for energy monitoring (not for lighting control, although that could be a fallback for the future). Their only downside is that the user interface for programming is very klunky and they have no plans to invest heavily in UI themselves, preferring to let 3rd party apps handle that. Frankly that may prove to be the best solution, but I continue to look for a great User Interface as WAF and my own desire fir things that "just work" and have good design make this more and more important. At any rate, ISY (company is actually Universal Decices) recently added support for Zwave and Zigbee, and they make a great product with amazing support. I strongly endorse them.
For HVAC I took a near - heretical approach for hard core HA enthusiasts and went with a Nest after years of using a serial-based thermostat tied into the Elk (and an even older X10 tstat before that). Love the Nest! Rock solid performance, great user interface both physically and over internet, and great WAF. They do not have an open API but some programmers have figured out how to interface with it for third party plugins to the software "brains" of a HA system. And frankly, I don't know that I really need much more control than that provided by the Nest on its own. It can be accessed physically and even a child can easily understand how to operate it. The web and app interfaces operate beautifully and easily, programming is done through any of these methods and it does a better job of interfacing with our 10 year old equipment than any other HA stat I can buy. I can see exactly when the system was operating each day (including when backup heat for the heat pump was required) and they even email me each month with an easy to read summary. It vies for "favorite component" with the ISY and I strongly recommend it.
For higher logic brains (the equivalent to CQC for Wuench's system) I think it's important to NOT have critical functions DEPENDENT on this part of the system. I liken it to the human body in that we have a part of our brain that controls speech, reasoning, etc., and we're happy that we have this. But if we suffer a blow to the head or even when we go to sleep, our brain stem and "lower order / less evolved" brain functions continue to operate (heartbeat, respiration, etc.). THAT is how I recommend you build your system. If the higher logic brain goes down, you want HVAC, security and maybe even basic lighting control to continue to function adequately.
Now, I admit that I am looking for a new "higher logic" HA brain. I used HomeSeer for years and was happy with their version 1.x (many updates). Then they came out with version 2.x and personally I have never liked it due to continued problems with reliability (others, and your, results may be different so let them chime in). They now have version 3 released and in beta and the jury is still out, in my opinion. It's a Windows-based system and we are increasingly a Mac household, and when I hear them talk about things like "memory leaks" they are finding and attempting to fix I start to become concerned. I have felt like a beta tester for them for years and have grown weary of it, although I have not completely walked away. The HS community of users is fantastic and frankly much more helpful to me than the company, whose support I find spotty and focused on their latest product and interests. I have it shut down now and am seeing what I can do with the Elk, ISY and Nest only. WAF has improved dramatically, and I miss only a few functions such as some temp reporting and speech warnings of weather alerts, visitors, etc. I suspect my search will continue for a few months to come and include both the new HS3 and others. Most of my energy will be going into the new ISY, though.
I hope this summary and opinion is of some value, and welcome to the addiction.
My Elk (for security and some inputs) has been extremely reliable but I echo the fact that they have been stuck in time in terms of updates to their interface and some technology (for reasons I just don't understand), and require a Windows -based software to program the system. They deserve consideration as a security system that can interface with HA, but their lack of innovation worries me to the point I would also look at HAI if I were building new, and decide between the two. I can't make a recommendation beyond that except to say that security MUST be rock solid and I strongly advise it be capable of operating on its own if other components "go down".
Lighting for me is Insteon and an ISY. I despised Insteon for about two years in a previous house but they largely cleaned up their act and dramatically improved their quality to the point I installed them in our current house and have been generally pleased. I went with them because it was an existing house so a rewire was not practical. Zwave was my other consideration but I was concerned about the controller problems others seemed to be having with it at the time, and the mesh network just wasn't what I personally wanted. I have nothing against it, though, and others will be a better guide re that. For NEW construction you can't beat a hardwired system for reliability, but you must get things right the first time and plan ahead for almost anything you want for the future (wires being the limiting factor). The prior owner of our previous house had installed some hard-wired system that I can't even remember now, and by the time we bought it ~3 years later it was essentially impossible to upgrade so that it could work with a HA system. We ripped out thousands of $ worth of new-looking but obsolete hardware and put in Insteon. If I had to do it all again Insteon would be on my list along with Zwave largely because I I could reconfigure and add as our needs change over the years (and they do, more than you think, unless you automate everything possible the first time). And even then it's a gamble.
For lighting control I also use an ISY and it has become my favorite part of the system. Almost as reliable as the Elk, and the best customer support imaginable. And they continue to innovate, with great response to the needs of their community. I tie it into the Elk with their Elk module (via IP), and it's as if it were a single, integrated system. In fact, I'm in the process of upgrading to a new ISY 994 that adds Zigbee support for energy monitoring (not for lighting control, although that could be a fallback for the future). Their only downside is that the user interface for programming is very klunky and they have no plans to invest heavily in UI themselves, preferring to let 3rd party apps handle that. Frankly that may prove to be the best solution, but I continue to look for a great User Interface as WAF and my own desire fir things that "just work" and have good design make this more and more important. At any rate, ISY (company is actually Universal Decices) recently added support for Zwave and Zigbee, and they make a great product with amazing support. I strongly endorse them.
For HVAC I took a near - heretical approach for hard core HA enthusiasts and went with a Nest after years of using a serial-based thermostat tied into the Elk (and an even older X10 tstat before that). Love the Nest! Rock solid performance, great user interface both physically and over internet, and great WAF. They do not have an open API but some programmers have figured out how to interface with it for third party plugins to the software "brains" of a HA system. And frankly, I don't know that I really need much more control than that provided by the Nest on its own. It can be accessed physically and even a child can easily understand how to operate it. The web and app interfaces operate beautifully and easily, programming is done through any of these methods and it does a better job of interfacing with our 10 year old equipment than any other HA stat I can buy. I can see exactly when the system was operating each day (including when backup heat for the heat pump was required) and they even email me each month with an easy to read summary. It vies for "favorite component" with the ISY and I strongly recommend it.
For higher logic brains (the equivalent to CQC for Wuench's system) I think it's important to NOT have critical functions DEPENDENT on this part of the system. I liken it to the human body in that we have a part of our brain that controls speech, reasoning, etc., and we're happy that we have this. But if we suffer a blow to the head or even when we go to sleep, our brain stem and "lower order / less evolved" brain functions continue to operate (heartbeat, respiration, etc.). THAT is how I recommend you build your system. If the higher logic brain goes down, you want HVAC, security and maybe even basic lighting control to continue to function adequately.
Now, I admit that I am looking for a new "higher logic" HA brain. I used HomeSeer for years and was happy with their version 1.x (many updates). Then they came out with version 2.x and personally I have never liked it due to continued problems with reliability (others, and your, results may be different so let them chime in). They now have version 3 released and in beta and the jury is still out, in my opinion. It's a Windows-based system and we are increasingly a Mac household, and when I hear them talk about things like "memory leaks" they are finding and attempting to fix I start to become concerned. I have felt like a beta tester for them for years and have grown weary of it, although I have not completely walked away. The HS community of users is fantastic and frankly much more helpful to me than the company, whose support I find spotty and focused on their latest product and interests. I have it shut down now and am seeing what I can do with the Elk, ISY and Nest only. WAF has improved dramatically, and I miss only a few functions such as some temp reporting and speech warnings of weather alerts, visitors, etc. I suspect my search will continue for a few months to come and include both the new HS3 and others. Most of my energy will be going into the new ISY, though.
I hope this summary and opinion is of some value, and welcome to the addiction.
I have an Elk Alarm system and use CQC. CQC works so well and is so much more powerful than the ELK (or HAI), if I was going to do it again I would look at a "dumb" alarm system like DCS. I have all my logic built into the CQC system and have ended up using the ELK for basic alarm control only.
I use a B&K CT610 whole house A/V distribtution system which I really love. The sound quality is excellent and much better than the other systems I have heard (although speaker selection plays a big role in this too). The only downside to that system is the keypads which are pretty ugly. The good news is that I don't use any keypads because I use CQC to control it through different touch screens, IR remote controls, and tablets, phones, etc.
I use RCS Thermostats which I really like as well.
Finally I use Centralte lighting control which works well.
I use a B&K CT610 whole house A/V distribtution system which I really love. The sound quality is excellent and much better than the other systems I have heard (although speaker selection plays a big role in this too). The only downside to that system is the keypads which are pretty ugly. The good news is that I don't use any keypads because I use CQC to control it through different touch screens, IR remote controls, and tablets, phones, etc.
I use RCS Thermostats which I really like as well.
Finally I use Centralte lighting control which works well.
hebrewhammer
New Member
Wuench, Madcodger, and sic0048- Thank you all for responding with your system set ups. Ive been reading about all the different compatibility and pros and cons of each system so hearing this first hand experience is critical to me! Thank you!!
apostolakisl
Senior Member
The ISY and Elk really do work well together.
pete_c
Guru
Personally relating to HA in general and the internet (cloud) I am moving in a direction of making the house work primarily by itself without the need of the internet.
That said too I have become somewhat selfish in my methodogies of taking what I need from the internet mostly and not really giving anything back.
That is me and my personal thing.
That said too I have become somewhat selfish in my methodogies of taking what I need from the internet mostly and not really giving anything back.
That is me and my personal thing.
I currently use:
SA UPB - lighting
SA UPB I/O - dry contacts for garage door monitoring
Global Cache iTach - IR contol
HAI Omni LTe - controller tying together lights and door/window monitoring
Haiku - monitoring and control of the HAI from iOS devices
HaikuHelper - push notifications and additional HAI programming options
Roomie Remote - A/V control on iOS
Nest - thermostat
iCam - security cameras
Etherrain/Lawncheck/Sprinkler - irrigation
A/V - AirPlay, TiVo, Windows Media Center, Apple TV, iTunes, cTiVo/VideoRedo/VideoRedoAutoprocessor to encode TiVo/WMC recordings
I've used X-10, Homeseer, and Elve in the past and I'm not sorry I left any of them behind. Looked at Charmed Quark but decided it was better suited for someone with deeper pockets and more interest/time/expertise in a customized solution. I gave up looking for a comprehensive single solution a few years back and have instead focused on point solutions that all run on the devices we already use (iPhone/iPad/).
I'm not saying it's the best way to do things, it's the way I happened to end up doing things and I'm pretty happy with it. I already have lots of iOS and Mac infrastructure so that was not an issue. I also like being able to easily upgrade/replace pieces. I'm envious of some of the CQC-based systems that I see but not enough to invest the money and time required to install one.
SA UPB - lighting
SA UPB I/O - dry contacts for garage door monitoring
Global Cache iTach - IR contol
HAI Omni LTe - controller tying together lights and door/window monitoring
Haiku - monitoring and control of the HAI from iOS devices
HaikuHelper - push notifications and additional HAI programming options
Roomie Remote - A/V control on iOS
Nest - thermostat
iCam - security cameras
Etherrain/Lawncheck/Sprinkler - irrigation
A/V - AirPlay, TiVo, Windows Media Center, Apple TV, iTunes, cTiVo/VideoRedo/VideoRedoAutoprocessor to encode TiVo/WMC recordings
I've used X-10, Homeseer, and Elve in the past and I'm not sorry I left any of them behind. Looked at Charmed Quark but decided it was better suited for someone with deeper pockets and more interest/time/expertise in a customized solution. I gave up looking for a comprehensive single solution a few years back and have instead focused on point solutions that all run on the devices we already use (iPhone/iPad/).
I'm not saying it's the best way to do things, it's the way I happened to end up doing things and I'm pretty happy with it. I already have lots of iOS and Mac infrastructure so that was not an issue. I also like being able to easily upgrade/replace pieces. I'm envious of some of the CQC-based systems that I see but not enough to invest the money and time required to install one.
My setup is the following:
Ecobee for thermostats
Elk M1 for security
Roomie Remote for controlling all A/V, TV, Cable Boxes, Game Consoles
Foscam for security cameras
Sonos for whole house audio
Baldwin for Zwave locks
Leviton Vizia RF+ for lighting control
Mi Casa Verde to tie all the systems together
I use the Mi Casa Verde to run all my rules for these systems. I find it easier to just have to maintain the one device.
Ecobee for thermostats
Elk M1 for security
Roomie Remote for controlling all A/V, TV, Cable Boxes, Game Consoles
Foscam for security cameras
Sonos for whole house audio
Baldwin for Zwave locks
Leviton Vizia RF+ for lighting control
Mi Casa Verde to tie all the systems together
I use the Mi Casa Verde to run all my rules for these systems. I find it easier to just have to maintain the one device.
Similar threads
