Insteon Bulb Discontinued?

[upstatemike]

I guess this happened a while ago but I missed it and am only discovering it because I need to replace some Insteon bulbs. Does anybody know what is behind this? Clearing out old inventory for newer versions? (Smarthome does not indicate they are going to replace it with anything). Is this an early warning that Smarthome is in trouble and the Insteon platform is at risk?
 
I could switch to Lifx for fixtures where it is impossible to wire in a switch but that will require some strategic adjustments (especially around my dwindling IP address pool). It would be good to know if this is a short-term situation or time to bail out of Insteon ASAP.

 

[ano]

I guess this happened a while ago but I missed it and am only discovering it because I need to replace some Insteon bulbs. Does anybody know what is behind this? Clearing out old inventory for newer versions? (Smarthome does not indicate they are going to replace it with anything). Is this an early warning that Smarthome is in trouble and the Insteon platform is at risk?
 
I could switch to Lifx for fixtures where it is impossible to wire in a switch but that will require some strategic adjustments (especially around my dwindling IP address pool). It would be good to know if this is a short-term situation or time to bail out of Insteon ASAP.

I can't answer you on Insteon. I'm a bit surprised it has lasted this long. I do have Lifx bulbs. They are a blend of IP and 802.15.04 which is the physical layer for Zigbee.  Basically one bulb acts as a hub and connects via IP, and the others connect using 802.15.04 mesh network.  They seem to work, and only use one IP address no matter how many bulbs you have.
 
I prefer to use straight Zigbee bulbs.  There are many available. I have about 15 and they ALWAYS work. Many "smarthome" things seem to be migrating to Wi-Fi type, because they are cheap, and you don't need a hub to connect to Alexa, but as you say, they use up your IP address so I haven't been a fan. 
 
Zigbee is the opposite. The more devices you get, the better things work. You can have 1000's without a problem, and, Zigbee bulbs can automatically update their firmware, over-the-air.  I think CREE Zigbee bulbs are pretty good and about $12 each. I used to use GE Link Zigbee bulbs but they have been discontinued but you can still find them now-and-then.

 

[upstatemike]

My problem with Zigbee and most Wi-Fi bulb is the lack of remotes and wall switches or keypads for day-to-day local control. I use Lifx outside so I can do color scenes for Holidays and stuff but the lack of local control options makes it tough to implement Lifx for indoor room lighting.
 
A typical application for me in an old house where many light fixtures depend on pull chains because there are no in-line wall switches, is to disable the pull chain and put Insteon bulbs in the fixture and a stick up wireless Insteon switch on the wall or an Insteon remote on a table. The only Zigbee ecosystem that is set up to do that is HUE. I use HUE in my office but because they turn themselves on if the power flickers and sometimes go back on after being turned off by Alexa or a HUE switch they just aren't suitable for bedrooms.
 
Unfortunately systems like Caseta/Radio RA2 have great switches and remotes but no bulbs in their product mix. Z-Wave scares me because the few Z-Wave bulbs that exist seem to be very limited on what controllers will work with them to access their full feature set.
 
Best scenario for me would either be HUE comes out with a new generation of bulbs that addresses the existing issues that disqualify them for bedroom use, Lifx produces a local remote or switch to work with their bulbs, or Lutron starts producing bulbs that operate from the  Caseta or Radio RA2 protocol.

 

[BLH]

I don't think Insteon is at risk.
I do think the new owners [Richmond Capital Partners] are going through sales and seeing what was not a good seller or had a high failure rate. I know somethings like color change kits and light pipes also on their way out.
Steve Lee was in a pod cast this summer and indicated new device are in the works but could not say what they where.

 

[ano]

My problem with Zigbee and most Wi-Fi bulb is the lack of remotes and wall switches or keypads for day-to-day local control. I use Lifx outside so I can do color scenes for Holidays and stuff but the lack of local control options makes it tough to implement Lifx for indoor room lighting.

Yes, I agree, but unfortunately nothing is really there yet. My Omni controls UPB switches, and I can control those independent of the Omni, BUT SmartThings doesn't support them, neither does Amazon Echo, and there isn't a UPB bulb. With Zigbee, there is one and only one controller, and you can't have two.  So my Omni controls some devices, and I use SmartThings/Amazon Echo to control others, but neither can control the other, and light switches can't really control either. They do have things like these Zigbee buttons https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F8ZFFQK/ 
In fact, this one should be delivered today. 
 
And Zigbee light switches DO exist also... https://www.amazon.com/d/Electric-Switches/GE-Lighting-Compatible-Monitoring-45856GE/B019HTH2A0
 
But I agree with you. Its a mess out there with no great solutions. 

 

[ano]

I don't think Insteon is at risk.
I do think the new owners [Richmond Capital Partners] are going through sales and seeing what was not a good seller or had a high failure rate. I know somethings like color change kits and light pipes also on their way out.
Steve Lee was in a pod cast this summer and indicated new device are in the works but could not say what they where.

Richmond Capital Partners acquired SmartLabs more than a year ago. This probably isn't much different from other acquisitions we  have seen in the smarthome area where some investor thinks he can revitalize a product line and become richer in the process. Usually this investor overestimates the market.  In the end, the only thing that will matter is if it can be made profitable.  We will see if it survives, but its lack of inclusion with many popular hubs is not a good sign. Is it supported by SmartThings? Nope. Wink? Nope. Echo Plus? Nope.

 

[LarrylLix]

ZigBee is a low level protocol definition and each company implements the higher levels differently.

This means brands are not cross compatible. Phillip's Hue bulbs are not the same Zigbee ad you utility meter uses.

ISY994 can be purchased with a Zigbee card to monitor your utility meter but is not compatible with any other home automation equipment.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[upstatemike]

I really wish HUE bulbs were not prone to snapping back on of their own accord. If they were more stable I could replace a lot of bedroom Insteon with HUE bulbs and Hugh switches.
 
Another great solution would be if I could use Lutron Pico remotes to control Lifx bulbs via some kind of Hub. I don't think the Caseta or Radio RA2 Select hubs will talk to Lifx though and it doesn't look like SmartThings Hubs can do Lifx either. 
 
I don't know anything about TP-Link switches and bulbs but I don't think TP-Link really controls anything... it just wants to be controlled via a phone app. No way to really bridge their devices to a manual controller any more than Lifx.
 
And of course whatever I get needs to work with Alexa without being totally dependent on it.

 

[ano]

ZigBee is a low level protocol definition and each company implements the higher levels differently. This means brands are not cross compatible. Phillip's Hue bulbs are not the same Zigbee ad you utility meter uses. ISY994 can be purchased with a Zigbee card to monitor your utility meter but is not compatible with any other home automation equipment. Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Most of this is not true.  If you buy Zigbee devices with HA 1.2 standard, they work fine and devices are all defined out. I have many types of Zigbee HA 1.2 devices being controlled by my Omni Pro II and many others being controlled by my SmartThings hub. They all work as expected. Philips Hue bulbs DO NOT conform to the HA 1.2 standard. They use another standard called Zigbee Light Link. Zigbee HA does not include a specification for Colored LED bulbs, Light Link was designed for JUST LED Bulbs. Many Hubs include both standards, HA and LL.  Zigbee can also be used for proprietary purposes should a manufacturer want to go that route. Control 4 is an example. This was their choice and nobody forced them to go this route, but Zigbee supports it. Control 4 wanted full control over their network.
 
Zigbee in a smartmeter uses a version of Zigee called Zigbee Smart Energy. Again your utility chose to go this route because they wanted high security, and THEY have complete control over what you connect to their meters, if anything.
 
Don't confuse Security and proprietary usage with "not compatible" because that is not true.  It was designed this way, and sorry if you can't "hack" into other's usage. 
 
Zigbee 3.0 is in the works, and will unify many of these separate profiles. But Zigbee 3 will still not let you connect to devices you don't have permission to connect to, like electric meters, without your utility's blessing.
 
Zigbee is very flexible and was designed to meet many needs, which it does.

 

[upstatemike]

Good info, thanks! I decided to take advantage of the Cyber Monday sales before they go away and get some Hue bulbs (just white) and switches for a couple of the guest bedrooms that are less frequently used. I figure the chances of a power flicker happening when they are occupied are pretty low and the combination works perfectly to update these rooms from old ceiling fixtures with pull chains to having a proper light switch inside the door. Also works with Alexa for control from bed.
 
I am going to gradually transition most outdoor lighting that is not controlled by motion sensors to Lifx bulbs controlled by wall switches so I can do nice seasonal themes. For now I'll continue to use Insteon switches but eventually plan to move to Radio RA2 Select or Caseta (or maybe full Radio RA2 but not sure I need that). Luckily most of my Insteon was installed during the CFL era so I mostly have relay switches rather than dimmers which would be a problem with Lifx.
 
I think a gradual transition to HUE + Lifx + Lutron with legacy Insteon hanging around for awhile is the easiest way forward. I might also play with some Homeseer Z-Wave switches somewhere but Z-Wave on any large scale scares me while Zigbee and Lutron seem pretty trouble free.

 

[LarrylLix]

Most of this is not true.  If you buy Zigbee devices with HA 1.2 standard, they work fine and devices are all defined out. I have many types of Zigbee HA 1.2 devices being controlled by my Omni Pro II and many others being controlled by my SmartThings hub. They all work as expected. Philips Hue bulbs DO NOT conform to the HA 1.2 standard. They use another standard called Zigbee Light Link. Zigbee HA does not include a specification for Colored LED bulbs, Light Link was designed for JUST LED Bulbs. Many Hubs include both standards, HA and LL.  Zigbee can also be used for proprietary purposes should a manufacturer want to go that route. Control 4 is an example. This was their choice and nobody forced them to go this route, but Zigbee supports it. Control 4 wanted full control over their network.
 
Zigbee in a smartmeter uses a version of Zigee called Zigbee Smart Energy. Again your utility chose to go this route because they wanted high security, and THEY have complete control over what you connect to their meters, if anything.
 
Don't confuse Security and proprietary usage with "not compatible" because that is not true.  It was designed this way, and sorry if you can't "hack" into other's usage. 
 
Zigbee 3.0 is in the works, and will unify many of these separate profiles. But Zigbee 3 will still not let you connect to devices you don't have permission to connect to, like electric meters, without your utility's blessing.
 
Zigbee is very flexible and was designed to meet many needs, which it does.

I don't see where we  are disagreeing. The new standards being developed seem to support  what I posted with different brands  differing at the higher levels of protocol but still using the basic low level ZigBee old? standards. I am sure things have advanced in later years.