Lutron Caseta or Radio RA

[Skippman]

Considering that your 2 most important parameters  are reliability and cost, and the fact that you are new to home automation and own cloud-based devices, I would suggest getting Lutron Caseta for your lighting. RadioRA is one of the most expensive tech available for DIY (and will also require taking a special course before you can obtain their software), and the reason is that it is not only reliable, but allows for greater interfacing with other HA systems, such as HAI Omni and Elk. Caseta is Lutron's cheaper version that is still quite reliable and has a phone app, but has limited number of devices (no fan controller, for example) and will max out at 50 total devices, won't integrate easily with other systems without the cloud but will fit your bill.

 
I have a friend who is a certified Lutron installer who will be programming the system for me so the cost for configuration/training isn't there in this specific application. The fact Cresta won't control fan's is a bit of an issue for me as I have 5 ceiling fans in my house.
 
Honestly, Lutron's product line in general seems to make little sense to me. There's very little overlap between them. For example, I can get what appears to be the perfect ceiling fan controller, the MA-LFQHW-WH, in their Maestro product line, but they offer nothing like it in Caseta or RadioRa2. This is frustrating as I've just replaced two older Casablanca fans that used their proprietary controller and as such there's no separate switch for the lighting kit at the gang box. Right now I'm left using a Harbor Breeze RF based controller. 
 
Lutron also doesn't seem to sell contractor packs of multiple switches. I could have sworn they did at one time, and maybe they still do to their retailers. When I'm going to need to buy at least 10 switches I'd like to believe I could get a little bit of a bulk discount. 

 

[vc1234]

Honestly, Lutron's product line in general seems to make little sense to me. There's very little overlap between them.

 
 
Since RRA2, Maestro and Caseta use the same comm protocol("clearconnect"), there is no technical reason for their various gadgets using CC not to interoperate.  It is a purely managerial revenue maximizing decision to split  devices into separate groups achieved by whitelisting the devices in their respective databases. The Pico button is perhaps the only exception.

 

[picta]

I have a friend who is a certified Lutron installer who will be programming the system for me so the cost for configuration/training isn't there in this specific application. The fact Cresta won't control fan's is a bit of an issue for me as I have 5 ceiling fans in my house.
 
Honestly, Lutron's product line in general seems to make little sense to me. There's very little overlap between them. For example, I can get what appears to be the perfect ceiling fan controller, the MA-LFQHW-WH, in their Maestro product line, but they offer nothing like it in Caseta or RadioRa2. This is frustrating as I've just replaced two older Casablanca fans that used their proprietary controller and as such there's no separate switch for the lighting kit at the gang box. Right now I'm left using a Harbor Breeze RF based controller. 

Ask your friend if the MA-LFQHW-WH will work with RadioRA controller. It's a newer model than a single maestro fan controller, which is compatible with RA.

 

[Skippman]

Ask your friend if the MA-LFQHW-WH will work with RadioRA controller. It's a newer model than a single maestro fan controller, which is compatible with RA.

 
He doesn't think it is. Also, it doesn't look like it supports LED lighting which at this point seems comical. Here's the list I've come up with parts wise to compare and contrast the pricing between the Caseta and RadioRa2 systems for my case study. I'm using Pico remotes with the Caseta system in place of secondary switches on my three 3-way circuits.
 

 

[wkearney99]

LED lighting is a clusterf*ck of ridiculous proportions.  It's not the dimmer's fault.   Lutron puts a TON of work into trying to test lighting and there's really a lot of dirty little secrets when it comes to LED lighting.  The public thinks they're just swap-in replacements for incandescent lights.  This is NOT correct.  Decent ones, yes, have a lot of great features and can be dimmed similarly to incandescents.  But a lot of LEDs can't be dimmed effectively, if at all.
 
Again, this is NOT THE FAULT OF THE DIMMER makers.  Lutron, nor any of the others.  It's the bulbs and the situation is UGLY. 
 
Lutron puts a lot of emphasis on CHECK COMPATIBILITY BEFORE BUYING LIGHTS.  

 

[wkearney99]

Ask your friend if the MA-LFQHW-WH will work with RadioRA controller. It's a newer model than a single maestro fan controller, which is compatible with RA.

 
No.  It has no network lighting features.  It is not RA2 compatible.
 
And if you think it wasn't bad enough with LED lighting... wait until you discover the problems of trying to automate DC brushless fans.  In short, you can't.

 

[cobra]

 
No.  It has no network lighting features.  It is not RA2 compatible.
 
And if you think it wasn't bad enough with LED lighting... wait until you discover the problems of trying to automate DC brushless fans.  In short, you can't.

Just curious, what kind of product uses DC brushless fans?

 

[wkearney99]

Just curious, what kind of product uses DC brushless fans?

 
Quite a few of the new fans use them.  Which would normally be a good thing.  Trouble is no two brands go about controlling them in the same manner.  Each have their own RF protocol speaking to what's likely a controller board that has a built-in wireless receiver.  No skipping past the canopy box, no using an on-wall dimmer-like speed control. 
 
To make matters worse, few of the vendors make any mention of this on their product websites or documentation.  You have to do a bit of detective work, looking for marketing buzzwords highlighting a DC motor or efficiency.  That and LED lighting.
 
I suspect the emergence of these DC fans is one reason Lutron hasn't created any Caseta/RA/HWQS canopy controllers for fans. There's no 'standard' for controlling these kinds of fans, and existing controls won't work.

 

[newalarm]

DOes the LED dimming issue still occur when you buy LED lamps that are designed to dim?

 

[newalarm]

Thanks Skippman for posting that comparison chart. Super helpful. Essentially double the price. Speaking with Pete, he recommended a wired setup instead, such as Zwave. The Lutron rep sent me a Caseta test kit so I am going to play with that a bit first. 

 

[wkearney99]

DOes the LED dimming issue still occur when you buy LED lamps that are designed to dim?

 
Check the compatibility guides on the Lutron website.  Each bulb they test will have a PDF showing the results.  On those results you can see things like the min/max light levels it produced.  For RA2/HWQS dimmers you can use these numbers to set the dim thresholds.  That way dimming "all the way down" won't go lower than what the bulb can actually perform.  This avoids dimming problems like flashing at low levels.  This is due entirely to the way the circuits ON THE BULBS are designed, not the dimmer controlling them.  
 
There's another aspect to consider and that's in-rush, or starting, current.  This is where it gets complicated where some of the Lutron dimmers do a better job.  A 6NA, for example, can in some situations handle more dimming load than a 10NA, due to starting current demands of the lighting elements.
 
Yes, LED lighting is a LOT more of a headache than people realize, and it's almost ENTIRELY the fault of the LED assemblies, not the dimmers.

 

[newalarm]

As far as LED goes, I have been holding off investing in them, except for a few cases. It is not new technology but using it as lighting is. They are building entire fixtures with parts that are replaceable, but might not be in production anymore when you need to replace them; it would require replacing entire fixture (a costly endeavor with recessed lighting). I have bought a few LED bulbs here an there but not linked them to any HA tech yet.

 

[upstatemike]

How practical is it to use multiple Caseta hubs if you exceed 50 devices or if you have a wider area than can be covered by a single hub?

 

[jon102034050]

Check the compatibility guides on the Lutron website.  Each bulb they test will have a PDF showing the results.  On those results you can see things like the min/max light levels it produced.  For RA2/HWQS dimmers you can use these numbers to set the dim thresholds.  That way dimming "all the way down" won't go lower than what the bulb can actually perform.  This avoids dimming problems like flashing at low levels.  This is due entirely to the way the circuits ON THE BULBS are designed, not the dimmer controlling them.  
 
There's another aspect to consider and that's in-rush, or starting, current.  This is where it gets complicated where some of the Lutron dimmers do a better job.  A 6NA, for example, can in some situations handle more dimming load than a 10NA, due to starting current demands of the lighting elements.
 
Yes, LED lighting is a LOT more of a headache than people realize, and it's almost ENTIRELY the fault of the LED assemblies, not the dimmers.

 
I'm not sure about Lutron, but with Leviton, take that compatibility list with a grain of salt.  I've attempted to use every BR30 on the zwave vrmx1-1lz Vizia RF dimmers that I own, and they ALL flicker or buzz. Leviton has been a total PITA to work with, and they basically tell me tough sh** when I complain to them.  I've got every single bulb in my 5k sqft home as LED, and I really don't like them at all. You have to try sooooo many before you actually find ones that are even remotely compatible (this has been my experience with Leviton, cooper, and homeseer dimmers that are all in my home).

 

[vc1234]

How practical is it to use multiple Caseta hubs if you exceed 50 devices or if you have a wider area than can be covered by a single hub?

You would have multiple Caseta networks that are not aware of each other.
 
One could possibly glue together the separate caseta nets into one through Homeseer or a similar super-controller assuming one owns Caseta Smart Bridge Pro. Whether that is practical or not is a matter of personal preference.