New construction...wired in or wireless... and occupancy sensors

[wkearney99]

There aren't going to be any LEDs or dimmers that will drop to 1%.  I'd argue there's absolutely no reason to "need" that low a dimming percentage.  That and previous analog dimmers likely never got that low either.  Yes, old-school rheostat-based analog dimmers with incandescent filament bulbs may well have been possible to get a candle-wick bare glimmer.  But at the cost of serious overheating risks at the dimmer and ridiculously shortened bulb life. 
 
That and if you needed to dim things that much then you'd likely have too many lighting elements in the first place.
 
This isn't to defend what the Lutron dimmers provide.  I'm no fanboy when it comes to products vs consumer needs.  But I am a realist when it comes to what's actually possible with modern tech.  
 
One nice feature of the Lutron RA2 dimmers is the ability to tune their high/low dim values. This is useful if you run into situations where the dimmer's handling at very low dim levels causes problems with the bulbs.  Some  CFLs and LED drivers will start erratically flashing if the power is dropped below a certain threshold.  One solution is to raise the floor value of the dimmer to avoid that range.  The customer can use the side dimmer to adjust things manually and the switch will avoid dropping below that preset value.  The customer feels things are working properly, never the wiser that their bulb choices weren't ideal.  

 

[uscpsycho]

Thanks Bill. Great alternate take on the LED dimming situation. I think going down to 10% will be good enough for me.

 

[wkearney99]

My advice is set up lighting that meets your needs and desires and don't let technology be the driver.  
 
I deliberately chose NOT to use LEDs for recessed cans because they currently don't deliver the same amount of light as incandescents and have more issues than I'd like with regard to dimming.  I want lights that look good and work.   I don't want some green bullshit for crappy looking lighting.  That said, when they get better I'll absolutely look into using them because who doesn't want to avoid wasting energy.  I have some bathroom vanity fixtures that use LEDs and, if I'm being honest, I regret going with them.  The light they cast just isn't "right".  That and their dimming is less than ideal for middle-of-the-night scenarios.  Unfortunately the design of the fixtures centers entirely around the LED circuit board, so it's not like I just replace the bulbs.  Well, lesson learned.  I don't dislike it enough to rip them down (there's THREE of them) but I still regret getting lured into the "go with LEDs, it'll be 'better'" claptrap.  It ain't.
 
The same thing goes with percentages and settings.  Use what works, not what the numbers say.  I think too many folks get wrapped up in the numbers and lose sight of what's important; the lighting.

 

[twohawks]

I met with Kurt at Walters. He was very nice but was stumped as to what LED would dim down to 1% with Lutron. He said he would research it and get back to me. He also said he might know a lighting consultant (might?) and send me a referral. Been a week now and I haven't heard back from him.
 
He did recommend Juno LEDs but those cut out around 10% which he said is good and normal because you rarely want to set your lights below 10% anyway. 

 
 
I am surprised to hear your report on what Kurt said... I swear I was there and they demonstrated dimming below 10% with LED using Acculux (Juno) and mainly Lutron connected to automation consule their tech built. Mention to him there was a guy "with a black western hat" in their showroom back in April around easter with contractor "Medina" with concerns about LED performance (dimming very low, buzzing, flickering)... perhaps it will shake something loose.
 
=================
Update 7/1/2015: I spoke with Kurt recently and he told me that the response he had provided was within the scope of the equipment that "the caller" indicated they had and wanted support for, i.e., no guarantees of supporting super low dimming "with caller's indicated equipment".  Just fyi.

 

[twohawks]

I definitely agree with wkearney about LED tech having "more issues than I'd like" just yet --no question there.  Of course, I am dealing with a very focussed client who doesn't seem to care about the newness of this technology, and that its going to change a lot, and likely cost less, within the next few years.
 
Sorry to hear you are struggling to find a lighting consultant.  We got bounced around a bit in Boulder and finally found a guy there who seems to know his stuff.  I will report back here on selection/progress with that situation.

 

[picta]

We have recessed LED cans from Cooper lighting, they now offer a lot more variety and next gen since our install:
 
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/lighting/brands/halo/led.html
 
Our Elegance system works very well with them, it can dim the cans down to 7% without flicker. These lights are very bright at full power and we use them in scenes with various settings for dim level and ramp rate.

 

[wkearney99]

I still have to circle back to ignoring the numbers and going on what the lighting situation requires.  
 
I mean, really, what does "one percent" mean anyway when it comes to lighting?  Sure, we all get the meaning of 100% full illumination, but what are we after when we talk of very low dimming levels?  With old-school bulbs like the Edison type that's much easier to understand.  I use them on an outside fireplace.  Being able to reduce the dimmer to where the filament barely glows has a very nice effect.  Granted, I'm killing a $9 bulb in the process (versus the lifespan if I used it at 100%).  I'd have to double-check but even with that effect I still think the dimmer was set to 5%, or possibly a little higher.  
 
What effect is being attempted with LEDs that would even make sense at that low a level?  If there's "too much light" then that's BAD PLANNING on the fixtures and the bulbs in them.  With LED fixtures this has the potential to be a big problem.  Because with older incandescents you could always reduce the wattage of the bulb installed.  With a lot of modern LED fixtures there is no bulb, just a non-standard circuit board with the lighting diodes on it.  So there's no 'bulb' to change, making for potential problems if low light situations are involved.  This is yet another reason I've steered clear of LED lighting at the present time.  
 
I'm sure the LED lighting technologies will continue to develop and, eventually, have offerings that'll suit my needs.  But at the present I'd caution anyone considering them to really understand what kind of lighting they actually want in the space WELL BEFORE they start picking fixtures or bulbs.  And if you can't do that then stick with traditional (screw-in bulb) fixtures and plan for upgrading later.

 

[ano]

If you need the ability to dim down to 1%, there nothing stopping you from adding other fixtures just for that purpose. Nothing says you main lighting must do it all. Here in AZ the heat put off by regular incandescent lights is excessive, so LEDs are a much cooler choice. 
 
I hear many people complaining that LEDs don't dim to low levels, but you know incandescent lights have a big problem most LED lights don't, and I'm not talking about the heat or power usage or bulb life.  I have installed very bright LED can lights that I run at 50% typical because they are too bright otherwise, but if I do want them bright, I can do that.  LED bulbs keep their correct color temperature when dimmed. If i were to use very bight incandescent bulbs and dim them 50%, they would look horrible, way to orange.  So the problem here is that the incandescent don't perform, where the LED bulbs work great.  If i really want dimming to 1%, then its easy enough to add incandescent fixtures just for that purpose. 

 

[wkearney99]

There's also the issue of using appropriate lighting elements for the actual requirements.  If the lighting in the area is constantly dimmed then it's likely there's too much light being generated and changes should be made (likely to different bulbs).  Which could be due too many fixtures or too high an output from the bulbs in them.  
 
I don't want to get into a nitpicking session, but any time you're clipping the voltage to lights you're likely causing energy to be wasted.  Old-school dimmers did this and bled off the wattage as heat at the dimmers (thus the heat sink fins).  Newer dimmers are 'less worse' at dealing with this, but then you run afoul of those techniques ending up causing problems when the lighting (typically LED) isn't designed to work with that kind.  Thus just swapping in LEDs may end up making things worse through wasted electricity and dramatically shortened bulb/element life.
 
My point is make sure the lighting is treated as a system, not just an assemblage of components.  Adjust and replace things as necessary to get the proper balance.  
 
As for color temp, yup, older incandescents do tend to shift to a warmer color temp when dimmed.  Modern halogens aren't as bad but do still shift when dimmed.  Truth be told it's never bothered me as the lower light levels don't typically require color precision.