New Home With "Structured Wiring Package" - What Do I Ask?

[jaydubb1]

Of course you're not alone... this is a strange little niche, occupied by the wealthy and the weird if I'm not mistaken



Hopefully one day that changes, but for now there is no easy approach to the task. It's complicated, involved, and we're all going to make mistakes as we proceed.

With that said... GOOD LUCK!

 

[picta]

I took a look at your cable plan - nice house you are building! I would make a suggestion for your window wire to use a combination of 16/2, 16/4 and cat5, especially when you have multiple window panes. You'll need at least 16G for power wire (each shade will need 2 power wires) but cat5 will suffice for control, and a single wire can control up to 4 shades. So if you have 4 shades, you'll need to run 2 16/4 or 4 16/2 plus 1 cat5. You dont seem to have any security wire, are you planning on that? It would be best to run all wire at the same time, just add 22/2 to each operable window.

 

[jaydubb1]

I took a look at your cable plan - nice house you are building! I would make a suggestion for your window wire to use a combination of 16/2, 16/4 and cat5, especially when you have multiple window panes. You'll need at least 16G for power wire (each shade will need 2 power wires) but cat5 will suffice for control, and a single wire can control up to 4 shades. So if you have 4 shades, you'll need to run 2 16/4 or 4 16/2 plus 1 cat5. You dont seem to have any security wire, are you planning on that? It would be best to run all wire at the same time, just add 22/2 to each operable window.

That's a good suggestion, I just started looking at window shade control today!

What is the optimum for each window? I have my security wire in place, but I think I want to wire for shades/blinds as well.

 

[jlehnert]

If you haven't already read it, there is a "Wiring Your New Home 101" (followed by 102 and 103) in the Wiki section that has a lot of good advice and ideas. There are some broken links on the wire types, but if you search by category http://www.cocoontech.com/wiki/Category:Wire_Types you can find the information.

As you mentioned, it's a bit overwhelming with all the choices to make. If you're already talking to the electrician, you're also already behind the 8-ball in terms of planning for all this. Good luck!

 

[EmagSamurai]

I took a look at your cable plan - nice house you are building! I would make a suggestion for your window wire to use a combination of 16/2, 16/4 and cat5, especially when you have multiple window panes. You'll need at least 16G for power wire (each shade will need 2 power wires) but cat5 will suffice for control, and a single wire can control up to 4 shades. So if you have 4 shades, you'll need to run 2 16/4 or 4 16/2 plus 1 cat5. You dont seem to have any security wire, are you planning on that? It would be best to run all wire at the same time, just add 22/2 to each operable window.

Using different CAT 5 and 16 AWG is a great idea! That should reduce the cost quite a bit! I don't suppose you know if motorized shades allow the power and control wire to enter from either side do you? If I can choose the side the cable enters from I could use the 16/4 to provide power to two shades. Otherwise wouldn't it be better to use 16/2 and run a separate drop to each window?

If you haven't already read it, there is a "Wiring Your New Home 101" (followed by 102 and 103) in the Wiki section that has a lot of good advice and ideas. There are some broken links on the wire types, but if you search by category http://www.cocoontec...gory:Wire_Types you can find the information.

As you mentioned, it's a bit overwhelming with all the choices to make. If you're already talking to the electrician, you're also already behind the 8-ball in terms of planning for all this. Good luck!

Thanks for the link. I'd noticed the broken links for the wire types and had googled a couple of those. I've also read through the pre-wire wiki a few times, but being new to this it's still a bit tough to keep it all straight. I've got it book marked and keep going back to it for reference. I also hate being "that guy" that shows up asking questions the day before the install, but I really had written off automation as being too expensive based on the cost of Control 4 and Crestron solutions.

 

[tmbrown97]

I'm an Elk person, but I've been watching this forum for about 5 years now and I've never seen a compelling argument why someone would go with an Elk vs. an HAI - meaning there's never been a good "If you want XXX, then you better go with XXX" type argument. They're very similar in capabilities.

HAI does have more out-of-the-box than Elk does; you could literally plug & play more of their components off the shelf for touchscreen controlled audio/video/security/automation than what Elk does; but Elk has a better track record of supporting DIYers all along and is a very capable and easy to understand system.

Either way you won't go wrong.

 

[picta]

Using different CAT 5 and 16 AWG is a great idea! That should reduce the cost quite a bit! I don't suppose you know if motorized shades allow the power and control wire to enter from either side do you? If I can choose the side the cable enters from I could use the 16/4 to provide power to two shades. Otherwise wouldn't it be better to use 16/2 and run a separate drop to each window?

If you plan to have inside mounted shades then it would be best to have separate wire for each window: 16/2 + either cat5 or 22/4. The power and control wire usually enter motor on the same side. If you have outside mount under a valance, then you may consider some savings by running 16/4+cat5 to 2 windows with motor placements on different sides.

 

[picta]

That's a good suggestion, I just started looking at window shade control today!

What is the optimum for each window? I have my security wire in place, but I think I want to wire for shades/blinds as well.

The optimal would be to run 16/2 + (cat5 or 22/4) to each window you plan to cover

 

[EmagSamurai]

......If you have outside mount under a valance, then you may consider some savings by running 16/4+cat5 to 2 windows with motor placements on different sides.

I think this is what I was trying to ask about. Can you flip sides with the motors on the shades so that I could use one 4 conductor cable to supply two motors?

 

[pete_c]

EmagSamuri,

I looked at the drawings of your new home. Very nice future home.

I was trying to bring them and post them here and tried an outside image link, PDF and just an attachment and each one presented itself with too little detail.

I understand its kind of a lot of detail you are soaking right now aside from everything else going on. Many folks here have done similiar though and learned much from experience doing this or that. I know I probably would have done things different had I known 10 years ago what I know today and learned from this forum.

Still today though in the tear down home new home thing in Florida 10 or so years ago I've maybe tapped into 30% of the base infrastructure I put in.

Here in the midwest and in Florida all I really cared about initially was music everywhere; and literally within one month of moving in I had my music. Everything else could wait.

Once you've put in the infrastructure and / multiple chases for your wire runs and this and that; you'll be set for anything; because everyone here has done just about anything related to almost any kind of home automation bringing those pieces and "labors of love" to this forum to share.

Another picture (via google for a similiar view); more recent; many neighbors did the same in the last 10 years in Florida.

Goofy me into photography would fly in a circle over my old house (really bugging the neighbors I guess) until I got some nice pictures; almost lost my camera once doing that....in the 80's

 

[pete_c]

I reposted your new home drawings here.

They seem OK in size now providing some granular details.

If you want I'll remove them.

 

[EmagSamurai]

GREAT! Thanks! How did you get them to post without losing the detail? I tried resizing, but I couldn't read what was written on them.

I'm certainly trying to add more cables than I'll ever use. I've spent too much time trying to fish a wires through walls after the fact. It's so much easier to put them in the first time. I just have to learn which wires to put in!

It's amazing how much your home changed in those photos (and I'm not just referring to the color either :lol: ), and how many neighbors you got, too!

 

[pete_c]

In the two story house in the Midwest I built and ran wires in a chase on the longest wall in the house from the basement to the attic. I'm still using the chase. Its in the center of the house. There is an access panel on one wall in my daughters bedroom which you don't really see. In the attic I build a kind of support structure for the chase opening into the attic with much lighting and walking paths such that I could get to all of the rooms on the second floor. I used a kind of porous plastic flooring tile in the attic. They are like sized to fit and are interlocking on the floor in the attic. Also found an aluminum small attic door footprint telescopic kind expansion ladder to go to the attic. It is well constructed. I overdid it a bit with the solid core access door using wood and and insulation. In the basement the wire chase is using what looks to be like regular suspension wire hooks to one side where its kind of dividing into a wall of patch panels, Leviton panels, etc and adjacent (but will be another room) is just the server rack(s).

In the midwest / florida kind of went very granular with the single 15/20 amp circuits relating to the HA stuff et al.

The house in Florida is one floor with the com closet in the middle of the home. Small and a bit crowded; works fine though.

I helped a friend in Indiana with his home that he ended up building for approximately 4 years on his farm. We did run all of the LV cable for everthing and in addition left chases for more in the same areas that we ran cable. (a bit overboard I guess).

In Florida the wires installed around the windows were done in such a fashion to be very discreet and easy to get to afterwards. Artistic skill of sorts in the art of LV wiring. (helped tremendously with the WAF and her doing the windows without asking me what I was going to do with the windows afterwards).

Relating to the pictures I tried last night and it didn't work for whatever reason. They were still too small. It worked fine this afternoon.

The Florida subdivision is 50 houses build around 1958 or so. We were the first to do a tear down and due to HOA rules and such it took a year after the house was torn down to get approval from the board for construction (very heated and turned into a "legal" battle of sorts and an initial approval). Within two years after the tear down; many adjacent neighbors did the same. From the 80's until the tear down the house had become a money drain fixing this or that. The location and view though is why we kept the house. The house next door is the original owners son (80 something years old) and a great person and neighbor. (as most of the neighbors are). Here's a picture of the view from the house.

 

[picta]

I think this is what I was trying to ask about. Can you flip sides with the motors on the shades so that I could use one 4 conductor cable to supply two motors?

yes, you can order shades with the motor on the left or the right side

 

[EmagSamurai]

I spoke with our electrician, and he mentioned using deep boxes for the switches. He said that he'd never heard of that, and that the automated switches that they use (lutron) are about the same size as a regular light switch. I wasn't sure what the additional depth is for, so I couldn't offer any more insight. What am I missing there?