New Home With "Structured Wiring Package" - What Do I Ask?

[pete_c]

You could mention maybe that you want to leave the options open for multiple methodologies of powerline switches or future changes in technology to your disgression?

Base infrastructure and methodologies known to say an electrician who is say only familiar with one or more known "tried and true" methods of implementation would be difficult to explain somewhat because typically in a new home today folks or contractors never percieve any changes to "stuff" like the base infrastructure say for electric, plumbing, etc. Its really not their job. If it is something which he has to train folks in doing then it will ding the timeframe of implementation; hence can make the requests more labor intensive dinging his money and yours.

Personally in the teardown in Florida for the LV wiring that was done; I requested certain things like home running all of the cables when say someone was used to daisychaining. Politely I would say this was my preference and would agree with their methodology and praise them for their work.

 

[Monk]

For the (relatively) small additional expense per box, why not. Better to have and not need..... you know the rest.

 

[tmbrown97]

Standard light switches are very small and thin compared to automated switches. The automated switches don't let you push the wires into the back - you have to use wire nuts generally; and since they're also dimmers, they dissipate heat as well in most cases.

My last house has the normal boxes - and in multi-gang boxes it got EXTREMELY tight cramming the larger switches in with all the wires and wire nuts... this house, with the deep boxes, made it so easy.

Maybe you can appeal to his vanity explaining that you are not a professional, and you believe it'll be much easier to work with in the future when you are putting in these larger bulky switches and just want to make your life easier and keep heat buildup down.

 

[hagak]

Another reason for deep boxes is heat. Many ha switches get warm and the more space the switches have the less chance of overheating.

 

[EmagSamurai]

So it's just the light switch boxes that I should try to get the deeper replacements for. Not receptacle boxes or anything else, correct?

 

[lupinglade]

Just a few hints:

- Leave an empty switch box in each room next to the main light switches. Later you can add a room controller switch or even an audio control LCD, etc into this space.

- Don't forget speaker wiring rough-in too, at least to the main rooms and outside. Costs next to nothing, but a lot harder to do later.

- Make sure electrical is wired with both neutral and hot in each switch box (standard practice, but some installers take shortcuts).

- Make sure you have spare wires in places like between the furnace and the thermostat, furnace and controller (or security system), spare wires to garage, ethernet to garage, etc. Try to put Ethernet and spare wires wherever possible, especially in places where there will be devices that you may want to talk to each other at some point. For example, spare wires to the garage will be very useful for automating the garage door, etc.

- Ethernet for cameras near the entrance and any other place you might want a camera is a great idea too. Don't need power, as you can Power Over Ethernet.

 

[Del91574]

Just a few hints:

- Leave an empty switch box in each room next to the main light switches. Later you can add a room controller switch or even an audio control LCD, etc into this space.

- Don't forget speaker wiring rough-in too, at least to the main rooms and outside. Costs next to nothing, but a lot harder to do later.

- Make sure electrical is wired with both neutral and hot in each switch box (standard practice, but some installers take shortcuts).

- Make sure you have spare wires in places like between the furnace and the thermostat, furnace and controller (or security system), spare wires to garage, ethernet to garage, etc. Try to put Ethernet and spare wires wherever possible, especially in places where there will be devices that you may want to talk to each other at some point. For example, spare wires to the garage will be very useful for automating the garage door, etc.

- Ethernet for cameras near the entrance and any other place you might want a camera is a great idea too. Don't need power, as you can Power Over Ethernet.

On top of this, which is forgotten often, is for any potential camera, in addition to ethernet cabling, would be to plan for an additional 18/2, as POE is exceptionally limited, very much so in the case of any camera that might support a heater and/or IR's. May not be an issue for some areas of the country, but it's huge here.

Of note, while pulling ethernet everywhere is a good idea, one has to be exceptionally mindful of the 100m limitations of any horizontal cabling for ethernet, and doing a homerun in some of these houses, especially as construction details dictate, can easily come close to or exceed these rules.

 

[tmbrown97]

yeah - just the switch boxes; the receptacles are generally just fine - and most you'll never touch. It's generally better to use an appliance or lamp module externally than to replace the receptacle.

 

[rismoney]

Smart switches add depth, since they have wires not screws. Put several gangs in and you have a very crowded box. More wires = more heat. Dont let him talk you out of it. You will thank us the first time, you replace a bad switch, or you wont because they won't fry in the, first place.

Also don't do any 4 ways. Keep all your 3 ways simple.
Everything else you can make up for in programming.

Final thought. Focus on where he puts them. Avoid 5 gangs scenarios, put them at a height you like and makes the most sense for walking around the house.

My elec was a moron, and it didn't become obvious until the, power was on.

 

[tmbrown97]

ris - why no 4-ways? Is that a weakness of one of the switch types? I only know UPB... with Simply Automated switches, 4-ways are no big deal at all.

 

[RichardU]

Run conduit, as much as you can and as big as you can. I installed over 7 miles of CAT6 and I'm still glad I ran hundreds of feet of conduit. Try to include every major TV location and links to every mechanical space. The wire you install today may be useless when standards change. I've been there.

 

[rismoney]

My electrician who I mentioned, started out nice, but ended not so... I don't recall the particulars of the 4 ways but IIRC it had to do with the neutral being passed all the way through to the light, and not at the switches, but the ground was at all the switches. He worked it out somehow in the end, but it was one of many sore point in the wiring job. My reccomendation was merely about keeping things easy for the electrician, since they won't like working with wire nutting instead of their 2 minute screw based installs for 35 switches unless they upcharge.


http://www.thecircuitdetective.com/3and4wyinfo.htm


I was using the USRs and maybe this 'non-switch' threw him off. I should really make a blog on here with my whole buildout.

 

[picta]

Final thought. Focus on where he puts them. Avoid 5 gangs scenarios, put them at a height you like and makes the most sense for walking around the house.

My elec was a moron, and it didn't become obvious until the, power was on.

I have done automation in several dwellings for my family and friends and have not met an electrical contractor who would do a right job on their own. They always start out nice, promise you everything you ask for and end up doing what they are used to do. So in my last project I bought all the wire and boxes myself so that the electrician had no temptation to save a few bucks by skimping on anything, numbered each box and marked its exact location and checked all runs and terminations before the walls went up. Even then there were situations when he tried to "save my money", its in their blood. But in the end it was the first time I got exactly what I wanted.

 

[tmbrown97]

rismoney - that makes sense if you were asking him to install your UPB... the wiring is much different, but with the same wire - it's easy to really confuse a wire monkey who doesn't understand anything other than what they were trained for. The USR's are great for saving money and simplifying installation, but they take a really good understanding of how the wires are run if you need to do something tricky.

 

[EmagSamurai]

So how do I terminate the cables when I prewire? Should I get a low voltage box and make sure the drywall guys know not to cut out for it, or can I just staple it to the nearest 2x and leave them there? We're planning to spray foam the house as well if that makes any difference.