New SageTV point release.

[bfisher]

LOL Collin - I didn't even realize Sage had the ability to do some of those things. Nice to know!

Would you agree that MVPs are somewhat of a "must do" thing if you still have SD TVs in your home?

Absolutely! They are perfect for SD viewing. My antenna install finished perfectly today and we watched the Panthers game recorded in HD and transcoded on the fly to SD without issue (except no FF/RW - just jump forward/backward). A couple HD MVPs and my setup will be perfect! Kids were on another TV watching DVDs while we watched this transcoded football game and CPU utilization only hit 22%. Not bad My server is headless and is quite reliable so far. I have it sleep after 1 hour of inactivity and have had no issue (except it doesn't wake for MVP use... and my HVPro will take care of that)

My strategy was no modifications to Sage (including auto-comm skip, etc.) until everything was reliable, stable and no issues with HD or SD recording/watching. Another week without issue and I plan to add comm-skip, caller-id, folders/sorting, etc.

 

[CollinR]

Bruce, this is the tip of the iceberg. SageTV is pretty easy to modify extensively. How much stuff can you control via your Homevision's webserver interface?Start building some combined functions in it if you can. When you get into building the custom menus in SageTV I can help you link any menu item in SageTV to any function you can call on the webserver. It seems to me the Homevision has a very elaborate webserver, as such you can probably do just about anything.

This makes your $100 MPV into a complete automation interface, not the nicest one but probably the cheapest one!

I group my stuff into functions you might logically want to use from a TV, most common are exterior lights on and "Night Mode" which is where I lump basically everything I want to occur overnight.

You also have an elaborate IR system, can you relay IR from any room back to the server room? If so you can teach a nice learning remote all of the MVP commands and add in some for a DVD megachanger. This way you don't have to rip the DVDs if you choose not to, also nice for an unexpected movie request. I have just a single disk player attached to an extra port on one of my PVR500s (start buying Hauppauge products in the future!), works great!

Also if you have cable internet you may look at a QAM tuner, as I understand you get clear QAM (and it's HD content) with the internet access. Or basically if they have a low pass filter on your line to help block digital cable theft your internet won't work so they have to remove it. The content ranges by location and provider, some get a couple few and others get basically the complete digital cable lineup for free (minus PPV).

You need more tuners. Not much you can do about it, luckily your kids are young enough it's not a big deal. It will be as they get control of an MVP.

This way you can free up tuners as I am sure 4 clients and only 2 tuners you get hung a lot. I would suggest 6-7 tuners for your ultimate happiness. Analog cable makes for a bunch of channels on the cheap, PVR500s make good use of it.


What did you have before?

 

[bfisher]

my IR does go back to my central system - and I use the Logitech Harmony remotes and have them all programmed to manage my automation (simple stuff... lights, goodnight mode, etc). Easy interface and convenient. Coupled with my touchscreens I'm pretty happy You are right though, HV Pro has a good webserver interface (I rarely use it though, prefering to go with my local touchscreens running HV-XL. Only use web when out of the house).

Currently I have 4 tuners... 2 HD OTA and 2 DirecTV. So far, I haven't had the need for more... Also, my DirecTV tuners get local (non-HD) so in a pinch I have 4 local tuners.

No cable... we banned them about 10 years ago and have never looked back. I have DSL which has been excellent.

Previously I had DirecTV (1st gen, but I upgraded with network, memory, harddrives, etc). Worked very reliable but biggest limitation was 1 output. Sage doesn't have that limitation

 

[CollinR]

my IR does go back to my central system - and I use the Logitech Harmony remotes and have them all programmed to manage my automation (simple stuff... lights, goodnight mode, etc). Easy interface and convenient. Coupled with my touchscreens I'm pretty happy

Sweet! a Mega changer would probably ne a nice addition then. Just get one thats 1st has an OSD to navigate, 2nd Svideo output, 3rd cheap... Then just plug it into an unsed encoder port and map it to channel 1. I love this as I loath ripping DVDs, this is less quality (slightly, its still very good) but super easy.

You are right though, HV Pro has a good webserver interface (I rarely use it though, prefering to go with my local touchscreens running HV-XL. Only use web when out of the house).

Yes I was actually talking about using GNU wget to make requests to the HVPro webserver from the SageTV GUI, this way they can be accessed from MVPs and MVP remote if you don't want a Harmony for each room. The Harmony's are probably the most feature packed and configurable remote but they cost $.

Currently I have 4 tuners... 2 HD OTA and 2 DirecTV. So far, I haven't had the need for more... Also, my DirecTV tuners get local (non-HD) so in a pinch I have 4 local tuners.

How many OTA channels can you get in your area?

No cable... we banned them about 10 years ago and have never looked back. I have DSL which has been excellent.

I don't blame ya, I have banned one myself!

Previously I had DirecTV (1st gen, but I upgraded with network, memory, harddrives, etc). Worked very reliable but biggest limitation was 1 output. Sage doesn't have that limitation

The MVP factor is hard to overcome once experienced.



Some suggested SageTV modifications... Keep going with your stability strategy first, its a very good idea.

Niel's Webserver interface > like the HVPro this I use more as another IO then actually surfing to it. You can control clients remotely through this modification.
Niel's Dynamic Main Menu > When you see me post menu code, this mod it what makes using it possible. Just find you menu.xml and copy/paste my "menulet"s into it.
Commskip and Commskip Monitor >Obvious, this is not easy to get running right. Expect some trial and error unless you get lucky.
Auto Compress Favorites THIS ONE will allow you to sort content on disk. Once sorted I can give you the menu code to limit how your recordings are displayed. You/Wife/Both/Kids style.

 

[Mike]

That is a great idea with the changer. I have Sage and multiple MVP's. I also have IR throughout the house. Most importantly, I have 2 Sony DVD jukeboxes. This would give me an svideo equivalent of my component video distribution without the wires.

I may have to move my htpc to test it out, but that is a great idea.

 

[CollinR]

I have Sage and multiple MVP's. I also have IR throughout the house. Most importantly, I have 2 Sony DVD jukeboxes. This would give me an svideo equivalent of my component video distribution without the wires.

That is correct. I really can't tell much quality difference anyway, I know I should but I can't. This is how I do distributed AV, it's very simple this way and all in one Cat5. An MVP and a decent LCD can be had very reasonably, add in a decent "theater in a box" system and you have a rockin guest room setup. Also great in master bathroom, kitchen, garage, balcony, decks... Really I don't know where I wouldn't like my SageTV.


People will argue that harddrives are cheaper, they are. However decrypting DVDs is illegal even though it violates fair use, so being a security professional I can't have any of that in my home. I really just like the plug and play of a player, I don't need to take the time to rip the disk. That and I don't even have 400 DVDs anyway.

I am looking to buy a changer though, what do you think of the Sony interface? How does it catelog the disks? Anything automated or plug in a keyboard?

I may have to move my htpc to test it out, but that is a great idea.

No problems, if you have any SageTV issues post em up.

 

[Mike]

The Sony changers have worked well for me, granted I have not hammered them (not enough time). Most of what we watch is directly in sage (your approach might change that). My wife heavily uses sage but rarely switches devices to look at the dvd changers.

Loading is a pain. I have mine in the basement and I bring an lcd down when I load new ones. It has to read the disk before you can assign a title, so it is a multi-step process (load, set it to read them or just open each one depending on how much you are loading, then type them in). I have heard that some units have lost their memory, which has not happened for me (mine must be a year old at the most with no issue). They really should stub out an option (or just include it) for a network interface for a built in web server. The ES version ($600-$700) has a rs-232, at twice the price I opted against it.

It has a built in setting to differentiate the IR for up to three changers (there is a setting on the unit, and a corresponding one behind the battery in the remote. Harmony handles this well).

My longer term intent was to not use the Sony interface and tie it together using CQC (then it doesnt matter and movies are selected from a touch screen). Once I get to this point we can see if I regret my decision to not have rs232 control. Of course at this rate, I will be able to get that older technology for $100 on ebay

In regards to what is cheaper (putting aside legality as you point out for a moment and assuming that was not an issue):

Sony DVD Changer = 400 DVD at 8 GB = 3.2 TB = ~$300

3.2 TB using 500GB drives = 7 * $109 = $763
3.2 TB using 750GB drives = 4 * $170 = $716 (note not a full 3.2tb)
3.2 TB using 300GB drives = 11 * 60 = $660

Note this does not even include enclosures, raid controllers or the like.

Would a hard drive system be better? Yes, any room could access it at any time. However, it is more expensive and, as you point out, not exactly legal. Even more so if you buy one of the larger units that is legal (Escient, etc). Not sure what those go for now, but they used to be $12K+ I thought.

 

[CollinR]

The Sony changers have worked well for me, granted I have not hammered them (not enough time). Most of what we watch is directly in sage (your approach might change that). My wife heavily uses sage but rarely switches devices to look at the dvd changers.

Loading is a pain. I have mine in the basement and I bring an lcd down when I load new ones. It has to read the disk before you can assign a title, so it is a multi-step process (load, set it to read them or just open each one depending on how much you are loading, then type them in). I have heard that some units have lost their memory, which has not happened for me (mine must be a year old at the most with no issue). They really should stub out an option (or just include it) for a network interface for a built in web server. The ES version ($600-$700) has a rs-232, at twice the price I opted against it.

It has a built in setting to differentiate the IR for up to three changers (there is a setting on the unit, and a corresponding one behind the battery in the remote. Harmony handles this well).

I don't watch many DVDs either, I dunno just hard to find a good flick I guess.

Thats somewhat dissappointing. I was hoping it could at least grab the titles straight from the disks without user interaction.

You can set your changers as channel 0 and channel 1 so you still have full access.

Just wait until SageTV gets integrated with a VOD service, then you can just simply stream it from a massive library of films.

In regards to what is cheaper (putting aside legality as you point out for a moment and assuming that was not an issue):

Sony DVD Changer = 400 DVD at 8 GB = 3.2 TB = ~$300

3.2 TB using 500GB drives = 7 * $109 = $763
3.2 TB using 750GB drives = 4 * $170 = $716 (note not a full 3.2tb)
3.2 TB using 300GB drives = 11 * 60 = $660

Note this does not even include enclosures, raid controllers or the like.

Keep in mind 400 dual layer DVDs alone runs ~$600, so closer to $900 with the megachanger. Also most of those changers will only do MPEG2, compared with x264 on the same volume HDs you have probably 8-10 times the actual movie storage.

I'm with you though, it's cheap enough and I'll use the original disks in the changer (since I paid for them!) and it's pretty easy to setup.

 

[Mike]

Keep in mind 400 dual layer DVDs alone runs ~$600, so closer to $900 with the megachanger. Also most of those changers will only do MPEG2, compared with x264 on the same volume HDs you have probably 8-10 times the actual movie storage.

True, however that would mean that you were burning already ripped DVD's back to a DVD (and would imply that you did not already have your own copy which was the assumption in my example).

The changer will get the title off some of the DVD's but it seems to be only in the range of 10-15% of them.

Back to your concept: I really like that using the different channels. That is a really great idea.

 

[CollinR]

I also have my CCTV on yet another previsouly unused channel. IIRC 1 PVR500 can have something like 6 or 8 video inputs even though it can only encode from any 2 at a time. If you get a CCTV system from me I can get the feeds in CQC as well, this way your interface keeps the same appearence.


Have you modified the interface at all?

Do you have lighting controls? or what all do you have?

 

[bfisher]

Some great ideas regarding DVD changers... but to be honest, I love doing it in Sage . 95% of what's ripped are kids movies... I got tired of them ruining the discs. Now they can watch them on any TV, and we still have the disc in it's pristine form.

I don't really keep our (wifes/mine) DVDs ripped. Just as easy to rip it to the drive a few minutes before we watch it (on my automation server, takes about 4-5 minutes to rip it, and that much again to move it to Sage server). I don't bother compressing... only going to be on there while we're watching it.

Good feedback on the sorting tools (auto-compress). I was not sure where to start on that one... this is big for WAF!

 

[CollinR]

Slightly OT, but is anyone currently using Sage with DirecTV? I have been waiting for D*'s network solution or a D* pci card but every 6 months is the same answer 'we're working on it', so I was thinking about just using it with my D* receivers.

Ooops I forgot about the RC5000, that may be a full on answer for DirectTV. I don't know anyone who has one though, I would really love to see the inside of one though.

My antenna install finished perfectly today and we watched the Panthers game recorded in HD and transcoded on the fly to SD without issue (except no FF/RW - just jump forward/backward).

in sage.properties config

Find for each HD tuner plus generic settings:

encode_digital_tv_as_program_stream=true
mmc/encode_digital_tv_as_program_stream=true

Verify or set to true.

Now you can also timeshift live TV too. ENJOY

 

[bfisher]

Verify or set to true.

I saw a few people discussing this on the sage forum. I wasn't exactly sure what it did... but I'll give it a shot. thanks

 

[CollinR]

Well first just verify that yours is or isn't already that way.

TS and PS are multiplexing schemes, then to add some confusion you also have single program transport stream. A transport stream can actually carry multiple channels of video, audio and even programming data. The MVP can play MPEG2 TS streams but it seems it flips a switch in them disabling some things like the ability to FF/RW.

A program stream can only carry one feed and it's no frills.

I better way you probably be to think of

TS = Broadcast stream, used by broadcasters like Sat and Cable providers.
PS = Local stream, it won't work well if you tried to spit it out nationally for several reasons. Works great for DVD disks.

 

[Mike]

I also have my CCTV on yet another previsouly unused channel. IIRC 1 PVR500 can have something like 6 or 8 video inputs even though it can only encode from any 2 at a time. If you get a CCTV system from me I can get the feeds in CQC as well, this way your interface keeps the same appearence.


Have you modified the interface at all?

Do you have lighting controls? or what all do you have?

I am using the SageMC mod and I have not modified it beyond that (my initial thoughts were to focus on CQC and getting that up and running, but I see I am missing opportunities (and ones that can still apply when I do deploy CQC as well).

In regards to lighting controls - I have Insteon connected through an Elk. I intended to utilize Sage through CQC as well, but I don't even have the new version installed, let alone a stack of other parts or fixes that are waiting to be applied.