Power to Analog Cameras when using Encoders

[TurboSam]

I've been using IP cameras (Vivotek) with POE, and I do not have any experience with analog camera setups.
 
But there are a couple of locations where I want cameras (e.g. door jams), and it seems that analog cameras may be my best (and maybe only) bet for these locations.  I'm using both Blue Iris and Vitamin D (now known as Sighthound) with my curent cameras, and I want to continue to use both programs with the new cameras so I'm looking at encoders (Axis, Grandstream, etc).  
 
What puzzles me is the relationship between the encoders and how to get power to the camera.  Most of the encoders indicate that I can use POE (rather than a wall wart) to power the encoder.
 
But if I power the encoder by POE, does the encoder then also send that power to the camera over the video connection cable?  Or do I use the DCV outs that most encoders seem to have and send the power from the encoder to the camera over a separate 18/2 cable?  Or do I need to separately provide power to the camera apart from the encoder?  
 
As far as I can tell, these smaller analog cameras are not POE-enabled (if there is such a thing in the analog world) since they have a separate power input barrel connector, so even if the encoder sends power over the video cable, I assume I'm going to need to break if out someway at the camera.   And if that's the case, should I consider cat5 with baluns for ease of making these connections?
 
Any thoughts on the best way to do this would be much appreciated.  I'm going to have to run new cable to these locations so I'd like to get my head around what's needed and what's optimal before I hit the attic again.
 
Thanks.

 

[pete_c]

should I consider cat5 with baluns for ease of making these connections?

 
 
I still have a few analog cameras configured in this manner.  I switched them over from the RG6 & 18/2 cables to the baluns with power.  I did not see any loss in video quality on my cams.  Initially though years ago did run RG6 (should have run RG59) & 18/2 and single or double Cat5Es.  One analog camera did give me issues.  It was an older analog camera with a heater inside.
 
I am currently utilizing a Grandstream encoder to "blend" my use of IP and Analog cams with the Leviton HAI stuff (hub & legacy touchscreens).

 

[tmbrown97]

I haven't noticed the power out from encoders but Grandstream is the only one I've actually played with myself; they often have terminals for the triggers though.
 
The only cameras I've really seen that do the equivalent of POE would be some old Channel Vision ones I believe - that piggybacked the power;
 
If it were me, I'd do the baluns for simplicity and future adaptation to IP cameras when something suitable comes along.

 

[Del91574]

Analog cameras are not POE and trying to get power from a POE unit to them is a sure fire way to let the magic smoke out. POE is usually in the 50V realm.

Personally, especially in the case of outdoor cameras, I would separate out the power from the POE....IR's, heaters and blowers can easily exceed the POE port's output. You're already pulling cabling back to the encoder, I'd get a fused multiple output supply and call it a day.
 
While baluns address the analog-IP realm, I'd pull a separate power cable with the category if you've got any possibility to change cameras....POE is usually a limiting factor unless you get into high power POE and what goes along with that dance.

 

[pete_c]

I just used cat5e to provide video and power to the cameras.  I never used POE for this. 
 
That said you can just run cat5e doing same to provide video and power to the camera. 
 
I don't think you need to put the encoder next to the camera.   I never did for home or some commercial stuff. 
 
Thinking here I had up to some 200 foot cat5e with balun runs going to the capture cards at home.
 
I do still continue to utilize a camera power supply in a can with multiple fused outputs for the analog cameras which are connected to the encoder / capture card today.  You don't really need one of those types of power supplies though for 1-2 analog cameras.

 

[TurboSam]

Thanks, guys.
 
I think that rather then getting too fancy, I'll take the advice and stick with cat5/6 over baluns, and at least initially, simply use the wall wart that comes with the camera for power.
 
It looks like the Grandstream GXV3504 encoder has a "12V DC power output port for other devices."  If I go that route for an encoder, I may have to test my curiosity level and see if i can use that output port (rather than the wall wart) to power the camera via baluns without any magic smoke....  
 
And if that works and I get REALLY curious, I may want to see whether that encoder, when it is itself powered by POE (as it can be), still puts out 12V DC on the output port to power the camera.
 
Seems to me like it should work that way.

 

[Del91574]

As I stated, pay attention to your cameras and what they actually draw. If you're using cheapie consumer grade, probably no issue, but if you have units with heaters/blowers/IR's you're going to have problems with the voltage drop on a category cable for power....combined with a 12V power source it can be a source of misery.
 
Can't comment about the encoders, usually a function of price. Cheapies don't usually have a robust regulation circuit to drop the power from POE to a LV output. Keep in mind if you're using POE, POE+ or high power POE (above +) and what your switch can provide....even if your switch can provide POE+, if the attached unit isn't compliant then you're never going to get the power negotiated.

 

[pete_c]

Noticed a while back while playing with an Everfocus dome; I did have an issue with power draw relating to the heater (big resistor).  I did digress a bit with it.
 
Initially just disconnecting the heater; then falling back to using the 16-18 gauge power leads to the maybe 75 foot run on the camera. 
 
The specs on the Granstream IP HD stuff that I have been playing state the use of a one amp power supply.  I think they draw less.  Today mostly all connected via POE to a Tycon midstream injector.    The 24 port managed injector does have three separate power supplies. 
 
I quite paying attention to the analog cams; thinking though that the Optex combos were some 500Mw for black and white and a bit more for color?  These had two boards of electronics in them.  There is no heater in these.  The power supply CCTV can is still in place and utilzed today.  Thinking its some 12 fused links with a computer looking power supply on the bottom of the can.