Premise Premise Open Source?

Motorola Premise
So, just what is the next step here?

For right now, there's not much the community can do. We (DanQ, myself, & Chuck Lyons) have reached out to the powers that be at Motorola with a request/proposal. We are awaiting their reply...

I, personally, am extremely excited about the potential of this happening. I have committed to be the guy who 'catches' the source and ensures it is available on an OSS repository. Probably putting the cart before the horse, but I've taken the liberty of creating a "Premise" account on GitHub and even have a repository (empty) ready to go: https://github.com/Premise

But until Motorola responds we don't really know where we stand. Keep your fingers crossed.

We'll keep you posted.
 
Great news and I'm 100% behind it.

For what it's worth - I'm based in Chicago and go by Motorola on a regular basis and am available to picket, feed or otherwise incent people if need be :). I also have access to a number a number of lawyers if we need any legal help getting this across the finish line. I also have "access" to a 501C3 and S-Corp if that helps.

PS: Where's Daemon?
 
Posted it on the front page, Facebook and Twitter, since I really would like to see this happen. Let me know what else I can do:

http://cocoontech.com/portal/articles/news/31-software/648-premise-going-open-source-help-make-it-happen
 
I'm not a Premise user... But a longtime HouseBot user... And have some thoughts.

Looknig at architecture/pluses/minus of Premise vs HB, they seem very similar. Very powerful on the backend with scripting, SDKs, flexibility to attach just about anything to anything. But very weak on the UI side with native win clients or ActiveX clients. And both seem to be in the same boat with regards to development... Fairly stagnant over the recent years, relying on the community to contribute.

All of those things being more or less equal, and looking on the surface of Premise, it seems community support is better on Premise than HB. And that would be an extremely good thing if it went open source.

I am currently developping a 100% customizeable webUI for Housebot based on javascript and HTML5. My plan is to make it supported on all browsers including those on smartphones, iPads and 'droid devices. The long term plan would be to have a native app for those devices as well, but that is years off... My browser webUI has been in the works for about 15 months now. :s

I am mentioning this, because if I ever jump ship from HB, or maybe if I don't, I'd be happy to take my lessons learned/development from making HB web freindly and appying it to Premise.

Tim
 
I think the key to opening up any system like HB or Premise is to provide the strong middle layer to go along with the robust backend. I switched from HB to Indigo and love the RESTful web service interface so that I can either use their client, or write my own with full functionality. I've often wondered why Scott doesn't opensource Housebot - I don't think his heart has been in it for years now, and there's probably not a dozen users left out there.

Even though I've moved away from a Windows-based system I'd love to see Premise open-sourced, I'd definitely help in any way that I could -<dreaming>maybe we could even get it working in a Mono environment so it would be cross-platform on Mac/Linux as well as windows.</dreaming> I used Premise for a while back before Moto bought it and always liked it. It's nice to see folks like 123 (also a former HB user) and others working so hard to not only keep it alive but take it in a new direction.

Terry
 
Funny, I was using HB for a short time and was even the first poster on Scott's forums back in the day. But I always found Premise's logic way more like mine.
 
Premise is a great HA project. I didn't dive in it more because of its nearly dead status but having it open sourced would be really great for many of us.
 
I've been using Premise for five years. Scroll to the last page of this forum and you'll see a truckload of posts dated March 6, 2008. That's an indication of the interest I had in this product. I hand-copied hundreds of posts from the old Premise forum, in Yahoo Groups, to Cocoontech in an effort to expose it a broader community of like-minded individuals. I had hoped that if more people were exposed to Premise's elegant design, they'd be smitten and would contribute to its continuity.

That hope was never fulfilled. Many of the old-hands from the old forum did not participate in the new forum. Several new members appeared but, except for two or three notable exceptions, the majority were consumers, not contributors. You can't expect a community-run project to flourish if no one makes a contribution.

I thought if I were to write a few drivers, and document them properly, it would set a good example for others to follow suit. I wrote more than just a few drivers but it failed to inspire others. I'll temper that statement by saying there are 'notable exceptions' and their excellent work speaks volumes.

I had hoped that by nurturing new users, some would rise to the challenge and share their expertise and work. Some did, many did not. I spent hundreds of hours answering questions, troubleshooting, running simulations, debugging other people's code, and generally doing things others get paid to do. Eventually, I burnt out, pushed away from the keyboard, and left this forum for a year. For the last few months, I've been collaborating, privately, off-line, with the 'notable exceptions' I've mentioned.

Let's face facts, most people simply want to use Home Automation software and not to write, document, share, and support drivers let alone tinkering with Premise's underpinnings. They don't want to understand how things work under the hood in order to enhance them; they just want a feature-laden product to automate their homes. If they can get it for free, all the better.

Based on the posted feedback, I am surprised to learn that many people expect dramatic improvements from an open-sourced Premise. It currently works well, is extremely stable, and its bugs are so benign that they aren't worth mentioning. If you aren't using it yet, open-sourcing will not be a panacea. To my mind, it is naive to assume there are skilled software developers, proficient in C++ and Home Automation, waiting patiently in the wings for the day when Premise's source code is posted on github. If Motorola's concern is that an open-sourced Premise will compete with its existing HA products, their fears are unfounded.

I'd like to see Premise open-sourced but I doubt it will herald a new age. I'd also like to state that it would not bother in the least to be proven wrong.
 
123-

I completely understand your thoughts and feelings. Though, if it wasn't for the "notable exceptions", including yourself, I would never had tried and now use Premise. I know that, I myself, come on these forums to learn as much as I can and to help others. However, when it comes to writing drivers for Premise.....well, there's not much I can do there - and I work with computers/networks too. I can create a script and work through some HTML, but that's about it. So most people just aren't capable of that kind of work. What can be done is help with documentation and testing. Anyone with just a little bit of time in front of their computer can do that. I'm willing to put in the time, but can only do so much to help.
 
123 - I too understand some of your frustrations, but I have to tell you, there is a simple answer for the lack of interest in the product: It was (is) a dead product! When I started looking at Premise, I had just finished switching out my HomeVision controller for an HAI Omnipro II because of the exact same reason. I want to use products that are current and supported and have a clear path for growth. For many, I'm sure the shuttering of the original Premise forums was the writing on the wall that started people bailing on it. It doesn't matter if the old product is community supported if the core components don't have any future development. I myself was quite interested in it, but when I realized it was a dead product, I did not want to invest any time and effort in implementing something that had no future. I thought it had (has) the best architecture of any HA software out there, but knowing that the core executables and libraries would never be updated was a deal breaker for me. I wouldn't pick an accounting or inventory system for my business that had already been discontinued, why would I do that for my home? Whether the system was stable and had good community support was irrelevant as the core product would never have the ability to be expanded or fixed. The continued life that Premise has had since it was discontinued though is a huge endorsement for just how stable and mature it is.

If the software went open source, that completely removes all my reservations with it. I think it would take a bit of time for the community to build back up with it, but knowing that there would always be the ability to add new features and bug fixes would bring the product back to life. The fact that it is already a mature product would even make the uptake rate even quicker.
 
I have witnessed the same as 123 but on HouseBot. Most people want something that just works with there stuff and don't have much of an apetite or more likely knowledge for advancing a platform beyond their requirements. I reckoned people would be all over my browser remote, but I'm lucky if I get 5 testers to help me debug each time I post a release. The same applies to drivers, new devices, new connectivity... The HB community doesn't really want to spend time developping it for the greater good. Not because of lack of desire, but moreso for time and effort involved. There are lots of great ideas, just no time and or no people to implement them.

I suspect there isn't much that an open source community could bring to Premise that it doesn't already have... The core is stable and mature. And any opportunities for adding functionality, features, devices, etc is already there via the open SDK. Just because something goes open source, doesn't mean automatically that it will be actively maintained. It's a fair amount of effort to maintain any open source project, and I suspect most of us would prefer to be tinkering with actual setup vs maintaining an open source piece of sofware.

ts
 
Without question, the product (Premise) died years ago. Without question, that fact alone turns people away. You won't get any argument from me that a developer-less software product is a 'deal breaker' for many people.

I'm in the minority who hunt for free treasure and, if the realized value is greater than the drawbacks, are willing to live with the status quo. Premise's architects over-engineered the product to the point it still offers features that are not found in current products. On the other hand, having had time to sit on the bench for five years, it also lacks features.

I started HA with MisterHouse. I became weary of its quirks, minimal documentation, and other issues that aren't worth elaboration and moved on to HouseBot. I really liked HouseBot; it offered a great deal power for a budget price. However, during its evaluation period, I discovered Premise and was immediately impressed. A fully documented product based on a powerful object-oriented architecture that was supremely extensible. And free.

It was, and continues to be, a good fit for me. If open-sourcing removes the stigma of 'dead product', well, that's great; efforts to expand HA to a broader audience are worthwhile.


BTW, Timoh, your experience is one of the reasons I did not purchase HB after the eval period expired; my final post in the HB forum stated that very reason. Active community participation is an important element for the success of a software product, especially for HA.
 
The 'dead product' stigma is probably the largest issue with Premise. Open source would remove this, and invite more talent to this project. So let's make this happen, there is nothing to lose, but a lot to gain!
 
The 'dead product' stigma is probably the largest issue with Premise. Open source would remove this, and invite more talent to this project. So let's make this happen, there is nothing to lose, but a lot to gain!

I couldn't agree more. I think that many more would try it if it were open source. Plus it would get a lot more attention when it is released as Open Source. all of that would certainly encourage more to get involved. It's our job (those that can't actually code) to get it attention.
 
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