Question when switching from old Guardaware to Elk M1 Gold

[dadarkjedi]

Hello everyone, I would like to ask a few questions about the Elk M1 Gold home security system/ home automation. I purchased this unit about 4 years ago and still have not installed it, its still in the box lol, I know I know, why the heck would I buy it and never install it, well if you happen to read my only other post, I originally bought it because I was having an issue arming my currant system (Guardaware) that came with the house when I purchased it. Well as soon as I purchased the Elk M1, I figured out my problem with the guardaware, lol so there is sat for 4 years, well its time to get cracking.
OK so here's question #1, my old system has what looks like, ball reed contacts on all the doors and windows throughout the house and a few motion sensors, and all have worked flawlessly so far, (knock on wood), Everything is hardwired, there are no wireless items in the system (too old I guess). I plan to run cat6 cable for the new key pads, and I intend to purchase the Elk data bus wiring hub to connect the keypads to the main panel, but I was wondering about the wire that is used throughout the house atm that connects the door/window triggers, and sensors to the old panel, would I be ok to use what's already in place as far as wire goes, since it's all there already, and has worked great all this time, or would I need to replace all that wire.
Question #2 would I need to replace all my door triggers and window triggers and sensors? or are the old items still usable.
Im really not familiar with how these systems work, but I'm up for the challenge, and my primary concern is, I would like to have everything ready before I remove my old panel and install the Elk, inorder to minimise the time the house is without a security system, so I'm trying to get everything in order and replace what ever needs to be replaced, before I change the panels, and purchasing additonal equipment, or new motion sensors and door/window triggers is not an issue if that is what is required or recommended, so any info would be very much appreciated, and Thank you very much for your help.

 

[electron]

I'll let the professionals/experts answer these questions, but you do need to find out what type of resistors are being used (if any, and where they are installed).  The ELK does let you configure it for a non standard 2200 Ohm value, so you should be good with that.  Wiring to the sensors should be ok as well.  How old is the existing wiring?
 
The good news is, the M1 hasn't been upgraded yet, so it's still 'current', just installed the latest firmware.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

You will disconnect all the sensors from the panel, then test each wiring run with a multimeter set to resistance.  Measure the resistance between the two wires per sensor with the sensor in the closed and open positions.  When the sensor is in the violated position, resistance should be infinite.  When closed either near zero if EOL resistors were not used, or it will read the value of the EOL resistor.
 
For the motion sensors, I would just measure between the two sensor contacts as you seem not to be having problems with powering them (the two wires for power).
 
Let us know the results of your tests, especially the value of the resistors, if read.
 
If you have resistors dangling from the contacts to the old system, let us know also.
 
Do you have a picture of the old system?  Especially a closeup of the terminal contacts?

 

[dadarkjedi]

The house was built in 1985 so its just under 30 years old, and from what I can see the guardaware system was not installed with the construction of the house, but at some point after. I have pictures but I dont know where to upload them so you can see them, I dont have facebook or anything like that so

 

[dadarkjedi]

hope these work http://imageshack.us/a/img26/9728/1000032l.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img836/6362/1000031pv.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img585/2170/1000024l.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img94/571/1000022l.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img853/6939/1000021h.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img11/8206/1000020i.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img163/333/1000018dd.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img842/6263/1000014a.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img593/7350/1000030u.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img59/2159/1000029o.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img822/7359/1000028d.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img853/5936/1000027bm.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img534/6729/1000025ie.jpg

 

[Del91574]

1. There are no EOLR's on that panel. If you have 4 conductors existing at the keypad, you really don't need to run new cabling to the keypad locations, you would just need to plan accordingly when adding any bus devices at the panel. In this case, it looks like the existing units used 8 conductors, so pulling new cabling still wouldn't be needed, even if you were considering a hub.
 
 I wouldn't worry too much about EOLR's and placement unless you plan on rewiring sections past the 4 zones you have presently. There's larger issues to consider before worrying about the supervision (and proper supervision) of the wiring, especially when you have large series loops of multiple contacts wired together.
 
2. I'd investigate what the contacts actually are. If they are sealed reeds, then they might be servicable still, but in the case of physically (not magnetically) actuated switches, it's a problematic install and if you haven't had issues, consider yourself lucky. Personally, unless the rollerball is on the butt side of a door and a sealed reed, I'd personally recommend considering replacing all with magnetic contacts.
 
Honestly, I'd recommend a partial rewiring to break up the points to take advantage of what the M1 has to offer.

 

[dadarkjedi]

Are there any particular magnetic contacts you would recommend, from what I could tell by doing a search on google, the contacts I have are Sentrol 3005 Roller Plunger, not ball reed contacts, whats written on mine is 3005 88 2 CL.loop. NO. Also I intend on taking your advice and seperateing the wireing in my house based on room location, so each room will be on its own lines or zone if thats the terminology, all the windows and doors in a particular room will be wired together to one line, or zone, rather than the way its wired now, by floor ( my home has 2 floors ), unless you recommend a different way I should wire, and again your help is very much appericiated.

 

[Del91574]

Depends on how involved you want to get and how much wire you want to run...not to mention how accessable the points are.

At minimum, I think field wiring should have doors home ran and wires for windows run by room. Any powered burg device should be a home run. Fire has it's own rules. If you have the time, ability and wire, honestly, unless there's difficult runs, I'd consider home running everything back to the panel and make splices there. It makes for easier troubleshooting if there is a problem, but it depends on a lot of factors if this is what you want to do.
 
Rollers or plungers should only exist on locations where there's no other choice, but really, that comes down to 1 location IMHO, which is the butt side of a hinged door, otherwise I believe a magnetic reed is a more robust and reliable solution (even though magnetic rollers are better than mechanical ones, they're still subject to mechanical actuation).
 
I like using Honeywell 944T's, 944TSP, and 944 TRE's on the majority of what I do. 947-75T's when the application dictates, or 955PST's when I have to use a plunger as a last resort for a recessed contact.
 
Not saying I don't use special application switches, but the ones above get me through 95% or more of most installs.