Replace DSC PC1832 with Elk M1G

[jasonreg]

Hi, first post but I have many questions.  I am curious if there are any "gotcha's" with replacing the DSC PC1832 with the Elk M1Gold panel.  I did not install this system (1832) and I do not have access to the installer's code.  I am specifically concerned with EOL resistors, whether I have any (or not), and whether they are required (or not) for the Elk panel.
 
I also was thinking I could use the DLS 5 software with a serial connection to a PC to see how the system is currently programmed, but as far as I can tell from the internet searches I have done, that this is not possible without the installer code (PC 1832 Ver 4.14).  Any thoughts here?   I have tried all the standard codes I could find on-line to guess the installer code but not luck.
 
thx in advance.

 

[RAL]

The DSC uses 5.6K EOL resistors, while the ELK uses 2.2K.  So if there are EOLRs installed in your house, they will need to be replaced or removed.  EOLRs are not required by the ELK or DSC panels, so you might find that there are none installed at all.
 
To see if you have EOLRs, disconnect the wires for a zone from the alarm panel and use a multimeter to measure the resistance.  If you see 5.6K, when the contact is open or closed (depending on whether it is a normally open or closed contact), then you've got EOLRs.   If you measure just a few ohms, then you don't have them.   EOLRs might not be installed on all zones, so it it best to check all of them.
 
If you do have EOLRs, replacing or removing them may or may not be easy, depending on the type of contact and how the installer did things.  Ideally, you could pop a recessed door or window contact out of the frame and have enough slack in the wire to pull the EOLR out, replace it and push everything back in place. 

 

[signal15]

You'll probably also need to buy the Data Bus Retrofit Hub because your keypads are likely 4 wire.  I just replaced an ADT system, and it had 4 wire keypads.  This worked great.  If you've got cat5/5e/6 running to your keypads, you don't need the retrofit hub.

 

[jasonreg]

Hmm.  Thanks for the replies so far.  Yes, I do have 4 wire running to the keypads so I will look into the hub you mention.
 
RAL.  I assume that contacts are wired NC.  I know for sure that the CO detector is as I had to recently replace it.  I will give this a try.
 
thx

 

[Del91574]

The CO detector will need to be changed in how it is wired.
 
They need to be wired as NO with the resistor in parallel with the relay terminals.
 
Hopefully it's not more than 5-6 years old, otherwise plan for replacement. The unit should have a trouble relay and contacts and they should be connected.
 
If you have more than a single CO on a single 4 conductor, that is going to possibly pose an issue.

 

[jasonreg]

WRT the CO detector, it is new (recently replaced) so rewiring it should not pose an issue.  But this I suppose is the crux of my issue, I think (will try and check later today) that the rest of the house in wired NC and without EOL resistors.  I certainly did not see a resistor on the CO detector when I replaced it.  There was the 4-wire line run directly to the panel (home run I think this is referred as) and then wired directly to the wiring block.  I know that the DSC panels by default assume no EOL resistors are present, what about the Elk panel?  From RAL's post, it looks like I should be gtg unless there are the wrong type of EOLs present.

 

[Del91574]

All panels assume EOLR's are present, it's a UL standard. They are only disabled via programming.
 
Most typical devices on a burg system are NC.
 
The easiest way to confirm is to use a DMM to see if EOLR's are present.

The CO detector should have trouble contacts on it that are wired per the documents provided. Most guys that wire them NC are using panels that don't have an appropriate zone response or type...or just plain sloppy installation practices.

 

[jasonreg]

OK.  Going to check.  Forgive the newbie question, but I am assuming that I need to unplug the main power, disconnect the battery power, then remove the zones I want to test, then use the multi meter across the two ends of the wire.  Is this correct?

 

[Del91574]

Yes.
 
You should not need to disconnect the power unless the panel is a huge rat's nest. You would only need to disconnect a zone pair (such as a door contact or PIR) to verify. If you disconnect power, you will need to reset the system time. (not a huge deal)

 

[jasonreg]

OK - have tested the wires and it would seem that there are no EOL resistors installed on the lines.  I get between 4 and 5 for contacts a bit more for motions (around 12) but in both cases negligible.  The CO detector showed 20 ohms but again nowhere near the 5.6K or 2.2K for EOLs.  I did actually remove the power from the panel but it turns out that the EVL-3 I installed to try and figure out which zone is what automatically resets the date and time - very cool.  This is good as I do not have either the installer or master codes (moved into the house with the existing system - do not have any paperwork so will need to either default the panel or replace - hence why I started the thread.
 
Next question though has me very confused.  I have a DSC power series 1832 panel Vers 4.14 with one PC5108 Vers (unk) expansion board - this should give me 16 Zones (Basic 8 + 8 from the 5108) however the Eyez-On portal as well as the HS3 trial I downloaded both "see" 18 Zones.  This has me very confused.  I have attached a few pictures (I think from the gallery) of the current panel.  One can see that there are single sensors attached per zone, except for Z7 of the expander card where I see 3 wires - there is also a resistor I cannot explain.
 

[sharedmedia=gallery:images:704][sharedmedia=gallery:images:709][sharedmedia=gallery:images:708]

 
Lastly, there was a PC5132 advisory message from the Eyez-On email when I tripped the power top the system.  This appears to be a wireless receiver - I know this box is in a main floor closet (the previous owner mentioned something about one of the hard wired motion sensors not working correctly ....could this explain the additional zones?  How would this 5132 be connected to the main panel?
 
Thanks in advance.

 

[RAL]

The PC1508 and PC1532 both connect to the main board through the keybus.  You can see multiple wires on the red/black/yellow/green terminals. Some are your keypads and the others should be the 1508 and 1532.
 
The 1532 provides up to 32 wireless zones.  Since you say that you see a total of 18 zones, it sounds like there are 2 wireless zones installed.
 
The resistor on Z7 is a 5.6k EOL resistor that was installed in the panel rather than at the end of the zone wiring.   It looks like there are 3 wires connected to these terminals in addition to the resistor.   Do you know this zone is connected to ?

 

[jasonreg]

I was just about to post that since I have three, four-wire smoke alarms installed (one per floor) could this be them all wired together?  It does not seem to me to be a good idea but this may explain the three wires and the EOL resistor (did I read somewhere that they are essential for smokes?). 

 

[RAL]

Yes, it could be the smokes.  And you are correct that wiring them that way is a bad way to do things since it leaves you with no supervision that the wiring is intact.

 

[jasonreg]

OK, so I am starting to at least figure out what I have to start with.  A few more fill-ins.  It seems that I have 24 AWG Cat 3 run from the panel to each sensor/keypad etc.  I can also only identify one single wireless sensor (a motion sensor in one room).  The only resistor I have seen has been the one on the panel discussed above.
 
Question - if a zone is programmed but not installed, and given that EOL resistors are not being used - would the panel report a fault or just nothing at all.  For example, I do know that zone 14 (a hard-wired motion sensor) was disconnected pre-reno (ongoing) but I do not recall any reprogramming being done.  The EVL-3 reports the zone as closed on both EYEZ-On and HS3 trial software.  Further, the one programming list I do have shows a low temp sensor and a high water sensor - neither of which I think are actually installed though there is an unterminated Cat 3 wire poking out of the wall near the sump.
 
Thoughts?

 

[jasonreg]

Also, it seems that though the EVL-3 thinks there is a PC1532, after taking the cover off it would seem I actually have a RF5108-433.  See picture below - so this adds 8 wireless zones I believe.
 
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:710]