Smoke Relay to Elk - Adding a single GE350CX

RLSinOP said:
Thanks much to everyone for for all the information and sage advice, which I'll certainly take.  I'm sure I haven't thought about this enough and/or taken the time to read the applicable building/fire codes, but honestly this just seems like a problem begging for some kind of solution.  I understand the need to keep a professionally installed system (wired smokes) intact.  But like other home systems (HVAC, Elec Panels, etc.) the vendors have engineered ways to keep system integrity but also allow home owners to tie into those systems peripherally.  So consider this - a wired smoke that is professionally installed, that has some kind of accessible plug or wire block to notify (via a relay, even if it's external) a home security/automation system of an alarm state.  Surely the powers that be see value in a smoke alarm that has the potential to inform the fire department and/or emergency services that a fire has been discovered.  With all the online everything which is part of modern life in 2013, this almost seems like the rule rather than the exception.
 
Sorry for the rant, but I just don't get it.
 
Your "plug" does exist.  It is the RM4 and it is inexpensive and easy to install and specifically designed to work with your smoke detectors.
 
And in my opinion, I see no problem at all in having monitored smokes in the house, but they should go through a central station which calls to confirm before dispatching.  Lots of houses have burned down on Thanksgiving while the family is having drinks with the neighbors (I personally saw one on of those fires 13 years ago).  Smoke detectors aren't just to save lives, they are to save property, and they can't save property if no one knows they are alarming.
 
Lastly, false alarms on smokes is a very rare event if you have them properly located and don't do stupid things.  I lived in a house for 8 years with ionizing smoke detectors and never had a false (or thankfully a real one. . . frankly, don't even know if they actually worked, which is my bad I know I should have tested them).  My new house had a false alarm with the photoelctric kind a month after I moved in.  I was never able to figure it out.  It happened when I wasn't home.  I assume construction dust, but I opened them and they were clean.  Haven't had another one in almost 4 years.
 
Without getting into the fray....
 
Sprinklers are to save lives. Detectors are for notification during the incipient stage (hopefully to save lives) and heat detectors are to save property. Sounds crass, but detectors are not intended for property protection, detection only....if that were the case, sprinklers would be mandated (as they have been in many areas, but that's another argument and discussion altogether).
 
A CS should not call for ECV or verification upon fire alarm signals...that is irresponsible and a lawsuit waiting to happen. A FA signal should be immediate dispatch and ask questions afterwards, no different than a duress signal. Plenty of lawsuits over that exist on the books....Big blue in my state lost a good 7 digits over them not dispatching on a fire trouble after not being able to reach a HO or contact on the call list.
 
The inherent issue with HV smoke detectors and connecting them to a LV system is this: there is no way to supervise anything on the opposite side of a relay coil for integrity and performance. If you compare a LV supervised setup vs. a HV trip via traveler (or an aux relay) the difference is very clear. No supervision for any cable or integrity of the signalling circuit beyond the opposite side of the relay coil vs. the LV system being supervised for opens and shorts (no grounds on most low end or residential system). While many here don't work with required FA systems in a commercial setting and supervision, if you saw what is and is not and what is rated and what is not, you'd see the differences and limitations clearly.
 
While you (and others) can do as you wish, I could not recommend using HV detectors with a bolt on module, not listed for the purpose (negating or contradicting UL or other regulatory agencies) and no integrity and performance monitoring would be reason enough in my mind. 
 
I guess I'll tell those people who weren't home and had smoke detectors trip that the fire dept responded to and put out the fire before it burned down their house, I'll let them know that they are just imagining things.  The house actually did burn down because smoke detectors don't protect property.  The house standing before them is just a mirage.  Heck I've even seen on the news where the neighbor heard a regular old battery operated smoke detector in the next house and called the police dramatically reducing property damage.
 
Oh, and I'll also tell those people whose boilers caught fire to the basement and whose heat detector went off and got them out of the house that they are mistaken.  They are actually dead because heat detectors don't save lives, only property
 
And those people on the 10th floor of that apartment building who didn't die because the sprinkler put out the fire on the 9th floor.  I'll let them know they have some nerve being alive.
 
OK, that is enough sarcasm.  All forms of fire detection/suppression have the ability to save lives and property.  Anyone over 40 can probably come up with personal examples in which a fire detection system saved both life and property, and the lack of a system resulted in loss of both.
 
tool head crimp.
 
It's nice that a FD showed to a house prior to a complete loss and put out the fire while they were gone. I'm sure the occupants are happy with the outcome, but that's part of a monitored system or the case of being lucky that another party notified them prior to a complete loss.
 
The intent and purpose of a system varies, but if you ask any of those that respond to these systems, including the marshal and AHJ's these key buzzwords:
 
Required system
Non-required system
Ancilliary system
Smoke Detector
Smoke Alarm
 
 
The required systems are for helping to prevent loss of life and for notification of the occupants to leave....ask those guys on the trucks, they don't care about your home or business and whether or not it survives. It's not the purpose of the system, the intent is to get occupants out, not protect property. The same statement applies to what people think circuit breakers do,which is protect the wiring from overload, not equipment connected to it...go ahead, argue that point.
 
Heat detectors, barring those required by the IRC and others for thermal shutdown of boilers, etc. are not life safety items....it's in every piece of documentation with them and on them....only notification purposes and they are never considered as such. Can they be tied to a system for notification, sure, but they are not a life safety item nor should they be used in lieu of a smoke detector. Go read any manufacturer's installation documents for ANY heat detector and tell us that it's purpose is not clear. Non life safety applications.
 
There's also a reason why sprinkler systems are mandated to be monitored and supervised...even if there is no host FACP or system installed in the building. If this wasn't the case, I guess you'd say that all these FA vendors, including myself must be racketeers to install all these dialers and force the property owners to pay for that hardware in addition to 2 phone lines and monitoring services then force them to test their electronic fire alarms annually and sprinklers quarterly. I guess there might be a reason why a waterflow alarm on a FACP can't be silenced also.....
 
What those bolt on relays are allowing is smoke alarms to be connected to ancilliary equipment. They are not smoke detectors.  NFPA doesn't forbid the connection to a FACP, however it states that it must be done with listed hardware and in accordance to manufacturer's instructions. The lack of supervision on the opposite side of the relay coils also contradicts their requirements. You're never going to see one of these relays listed for the purpose of connecting 120V detectors directly to a FACP, or conversely, the smoke alarms carrying the same listing to be connected to ancilliary relays for connection to a FACP.
 
The 350CX is a smoke alarm, not a detector. Look at the second paragraph of the installation documents:
 
The 350 series smoke alarms cannot be used in systems with control panels, pullstations, heat sensors, elevator recall, fire door release, etc.
 
Is that statement clear enough that the device not designed nor intended for the purpose should not be installed or connected to a panel for ancilliary notification purposes?
 
Explain that to those people, FD, neighbors, what have you, in the bleeding heart sarcastic example when those responders showed up to a site where the persons had a false sense of security by the connection of their devices to a panel but the system did not notify any persons because of a stuck relay, not indicated by a system trouble and they were overcome and the system never received notification from those devices.
 
I've had to explain as to why and how some of these systems were not installed to industry standards, manufacturer's instructions, and even why they failed....it's a pretty rough day for the HO when they find out the insurer is not going to cover their loss because of negligence.
 
I can tell you that those who pay taxes to the fire department expect that the fire department is there to save lives AND property.  I am pretty sure that if the fire chief spoke to the citizens and said he didn't care about property, he would find that his job was no longer there.
 
It may be true that the manufactures label describes the intended use, but it is ignorant to believe that it doesn't save lives and to somehow purposefully ignore it in a situation where it does save lives is absurd.  The reason for those labels is political and legal, which as we all now have little to do with reality.  The fact is, they don't want people using heat detectors in bedrooms and if they didn't say that, someone would do it and then there would be a lawsuit because it didn't say not to do it.
 
I'm not sure how circuit breakers got into this conversation.  But they are a completely incorrect analogy.  Circuit breakers actually don't protect anything but the structure.  A circuit breaker is meant to protect the wires in the house from carrying too much current, and that is pretty much it.  Any ancillary benefit is indirect and not predictable.
 
But a fire that is detected by a heat detector directly notifies the occupants to leave and directly or indirectly contacts the fire department.  This is the same affect as a smoke detector.  On the other hand, if your furnace room is 180 degrees, the benefits of detecting that are predictably related to saving lives of the occupants.  A heat detector in a furnace room is virtually never going to alarm unless there is a fire, and a fire in the furnace room is always a serious threat to the occupants of the structure.
 
You can stick to your security pro mantra all you want, but if it is your heat detector next to your furnace in your house that goes off at 3am, I suspect you will do the exact same thing as if the smoke detector in whatever room goes off. . . you will get out and get help.  And I suspect you will tell your friends that it saved your life, not just your house.
 
I try so hard to stay out of these discussions because they always get too heated... but here's my take on it:
 
DEL seems to be explaining all the reasons that using a non-listed appliance in a normal FACP would be bad... and I wouldn't argue any of his points... if your structure is required to have sprinklers with the dialers and all that, then so be it - that needs to be done to code; if you have a building that's required to have monitored smoke alarms and the whole system that goes with such, then you should absolutely do it to code with the required equipment.
 
What I'm hearing others say is that, even though they are NOT required to have a monitored system, or anything more than a series of interconnected 120VAC smokes w/battery backup - why NOT add an additional and option level of protection above and beyond that?
 
Of course I've seen topics go down that road before - and 1) DEL has mentioned that your relay at the end of the series of interconnects could somehow interfere with the operation of the rest of the smoke's alerting causing some occupants in the house to not be properly notified and people then could die...  The other argument could be that the Fire Department may now get notified of smoke detector triggering which may be more sensitive and more prone to falses than smoke alarm triggering, wasting their resources and time.  To me, this is like the security discussion... X10 makes a security system with dialer built in which could theoretically be programmed to call 911 and says there's been a burglary, but that's actually illegal (at least here); the local authorities will only accept that call from a legitimate alarm company or a human being with a valid reason for reporting it.
 
So far in this thread though it seems like the two groups are arguing different points - how non-listed parts should not be part of a FACP, while it seems the other side is arguing about why NOT add an extra level of alerting over what's required by law?  Do we really have to step up from interconnected smokes to a full-blown listed FACP, or can we take a few steps in between to take that series of 11 interconnected smokes and have them do a little more to alert us, taking advantage of all the extra components in our homes these days like the Elk?  And even better, if our dishwasher catches fire while we're gone, wouldn't it be awesome if the Elk caught it thanks to that extra relay put in and alerted authorities BEFORE a neighbor saw flames coming out the ceiling and calling?  False alarms could be mitigated through rules - so it only alerts if the alarm is armed away; if armed home, then false alarms caused by burt toast wouldn't get triggered unless someone hit the Fire panic button on the way out.
 
I've seen this argument go by enough times to have come to the conclusion that I'll keep the 13 interconnected smokes in my house where they are, and I'll add 3-4 wireless GE smoke alarms to be monitored by the elk separately (I'd do less if the house were smaller) - relying on the detectors to save lives by waking occupants, and the alarms to save property by alerting authorities if I'm not home to do it, or as soon as the fire spreads a little bit more... and I'll deal with extra ceiling clutter - but not everyone is happy with that solution.
 
Now without going too far off topic, what about my case where I have a sprinkler system with a flow alarm that's NOT supervised; all it does is trigger a siren/strobe outside my house and rely on someone calling the authorities... is there an easy enough and legal way to tie THAT into an M1?
 
Current transformer on the wire to the siren/strobe?  Photodetector designed to recognize strobe pattern?  Leak sensor underneath a sprinkler?
 
Is there some problem with just putting a relay in parallel with the siren?  I don't know what code is on a residential sprinkler where you live, no such code exists here at all.
 
The relay would of course close (or open) a contact connected to a zone on your panel.
 
Regarding Del's statement that CS always dispatches on fire.  I called Alarm relay (safely the most commonly used CS on this forum and one of the biggest CS providers in the country).  When I set up my account, I made no special requests, and the policy on my account is to call my notify numbers first and then dispatch if no answer/fire confirmed.
 
To Work2Play in general, yeah.  But regarding using elk rules on fire alarms, that is tricky.  Rules can not directly activate alarms.  The work around I use is to let ISY "push" an f-key which is assigned to an alarm.
 
My house is due to have the sprinklers serviced, and I need to have a minor modification done soon due to adding a wall that didn't previously exist - I'll ask the company that comes out about specific...  Unfortunately the access panel doesn't open!
 
And I do know about the inability for Elk to trigger an alarm; however even someone who thinks they're totally out of inputs or outputs could still rig up one of the input/output pairs at any keypad I'm sure to dig up one more...
 
Lou....Residential sprinkler systems are listed as a required system in the 2009 IRC. Whether or not your locale chooses to adopt that code in it's entirety or not or when, I can't say, nor do I care, but it's all covered there for starters.
 
In actuality, while your state allows the choice of installing them or not as an additonal optional system, your own AHJ's and politicians effectively voted against the installation of sprinkler systems in residential applications (SB1410 for your reference, look it up and read in it's entirety). In actuality, that further restricts the building officials from telling a HO that a system would be required for any reason (hazards, building size/type, lack of secondary egress).....not too worried about either the property or loss of life down there, but more about personal freedoms and liberty, contrary to how you feel or posted. 
 
Sprinkler codes for residential do exist in your locale even though you are unaware. Residential sprinkler is covered under NFPA 13D,  NFPA 25 and NFPA 72. It might not be a required system for residential in your area, but if you choose to install it, it must be up as minimum to what is prescribed within those documents. Ignorance is not something that can be used as an excuse. Clearly the installation is prescribed within those documents. 
 
An analogy with sprinkler (residential or retrofit, your decision) for you to ponder as a parallel to this discussion....I decide I want to put sprinklers in my new build or retrofit in my new(ish) house. I decide I want to use regular schedule PVC fittings (or ABS, devil's advocate), and pipes and tie into the closest cold water piping installed within code for my feed, after all water is water and pipe is pipe (and both are listed for potable water, further discounting PEX as an installation method since that would require special tools, right?) I install a flow and pressure switch as needed....what's wrong with the installation, since if a sprinkler goes off, I'll get water and it'll work just like a sprinkler system should....I don't need to take any further design criteria into consideration? 
 
You can cry foul, the "my house, I can do as I wish" argument, hum the battle hymn of the republic and claim it's your god given right to do such within your house, but just because you can wear a gasoline soaked pair of scrubs while twirling sparklers and holding an M-80 in your teeth doesn't mean it's a good idea, even if your locals allow it.
 
More power to you and your CS not dispatching on fire alarm without verification....they must have a good lawyer, insurance or both. While it may be allowed, do you really see this as a positive? In the same vein of your "it saves property" speech, if little Timmy is playing with matches in the basement and starts a smoldering fire and they call and he picks up and says everything is fine, but the local alarm doesn't change...smoke detector has no sounder, whatever variables you want to put in the hypothetical, and they never dispatch because a party picked up the phone and said all is fine and dandy, Timmy goes outside to ride his bike and that's where the call ends? An analog fire zone latched in alarm is not going to transmit multiple signals, so how is anyone going to know there is an active alarm? Sure, siren, got it, that should be going off....but who pays attention to a local interior sounder if they're not listening to it or for it? Oh...then it's the outside sounder (which wasn't put in because of ordinances, asthetics, the neighbors, whatever hypothetical you want to apply). So now we're at the same as an unmonitored local system.
 
 
Call verification on fire, duress or hold up alarms are not an industry standard by any stretch of the imagination. ECV is also an entirely different animal and topic. AR get around all the liabilities by stating all permitting and verification of requirements for any municipalities are your responsibility. I have yet to see a municipality or AHJ that will allow a call-first before dispatching on any fire signal if they know such a policy exists. Read Article 6 and 8 of AR's contract....unless they've modified it since the last time I read it/downloaded a copy. 
 
As a FYI, AR is not the monitoring company, they are a reseller of services from their vendor, albeit they now reside under the same roof and have done some clever hiding of their past on the net. Not a flame, but merely being informative for those, such as yourself, that might not be familiar with the industry and history over the last 20+ years.
 
 
@ Work.
 
Once you connect any portion of any other system to a system designed to monitor and supervise a fire alarm it becomes part of the FACP or system. It may not be thought of as such, but even the simple and most basic alarm systems out there, as long as they have the ability to connect to a fire component and that ZT exists as a program option within, they are considered a FACP and are governed as such. The extent of the listing (residential, commercial, special hazard, releasing, what have you) is noted on the schematic and any corresponding documentation that comes with it, which will always have the UL/FM listing and extent written in it.
 
There is also very large item that is coming across in this cycle of NFPA regarding testing and operation, since the items connected at the end of modules for items like smoke control, recall, and shutdown need to be verified for actual operation at the connected system, not simply that the module functioned, as they are considered a part of the system as well.....really it means that the officials are now spelling out exactly where the system begins and ends, not terminating at a wire connection to a module, point, what have you, but to the last component that is connected to the system...with the key word really being system.
 
Seems like the summary to this would be that, even though you're not really intending to do anything other than add an extra level of detection/protection to your system, in doing such you're basically turning it into a real FACP, and in doing so, you must do it right or you could be in violation of code.  Interesting - I'd have to read more about that personally; that said I have a hard time believing an insuarance company would deny a claim because you added MORE protection, but as DEL has stated, if an attempt to add more protection screws up something in the required systems, that could fall on you.
 
I'll stick with leaving the required systems separate - the required interconnected smokes separate from some additional wireless alarms, and for now I'm not worrying about the sprinkler alarm unless/until I hear of a proper way to connect it to the system.
 
DELInstallations said:
Lou....Residential sprinkler systems are listed as a required system in the 2009 IRC. Whether or not your locale chooses to adopt that code in it's entirety or not or when, I can't say, nor do I care, but it's all covered there for starters.
 
In actuality, while your state allows the choice of installing them or not as an additonal optional system, your own AHJ's and politicians effectively voted against the installation of sprinkler systems in residential applications (SB1410 for your reference, look it up and read in it's entirety). In actuality, that further restricts the building officials from telling a HO that a system would be required for any reason (hazards, building size/type, lack of secondary egress).....not too worried about either the property or loss of life down there, but more about personal freedoms and liberty, contrary to how you feel or posted. 
 
Sprinkler codes for residential do exist in your locale even though you are unaware. Residential sprinkler is covered under NFPA 13D,  NFPA 25 and NFPA 72. It might not be a required system for residential in your area, but if you choose to install it, it must be up as minimum to what is prescribed within those documents. Ignorance is not something that can be used as an excuse. Clearly the installation is prescribed within those documents. 
 
An analogy with sprinkler (residential or retrofit, your decision) for you to ponder as a parallel to this discussion....I decide I want to put sprinklers in my new build or retrofit in my new(ish) house. I decide I want to use regular schedule PVC fittings (or ABS, devil's advocate), and pipes and tie into the closest cold water piping installed within code for my feed, after all water is water and pipe is pipe (and both are listed for potable water, further discounting PEX as an installation method since that would require special tools, right?) I install a flow and pressure switch as needed....what's wrong with the installation, since if a sprinkler goes off, I'll get water and it'll work just like a sprinkler system should....I don't need to take any further design criteria into consideration? 
 
You can cry foul, the "my house, I can do as I wish" argument, hum the battle hymn of the republic and claim it's your god given right to do such within your house, but just because you can wear a gasoline soaked pair of scrubs while twirling sparklers and holding an M-80 in your teeth doesn't mean it's a good idea, even if your locals allow it.
 
More power to you and your CS not dispatching on fire alarm without verification....they must have a good lawyer, insurance or both. While it may be allowed, do you really see this as a positive? In the same vein of your "it saves property" speech, if little Timmy is playing with matches in the basement and starts a smoldering fire and they call and he picks up and says everything is fine, but the local alarm doesn't change...smoke detector has no sounder, whatever variables you want to put in the hypothetical, and they never dispatch because a party picked up the phone and said all is fine and dandy, Timmy goes outside to ride his bike and that's where the call ends? An analog fire zone latched in alarm is not going to transmit multiple signals, so how is anyone going to know there is an active alarm? Sure, siren, got it, that should be going off....but who pays attention to a local interior sounder if they're not listening to it or for it? Oh...then it's the outside sounder (which wasn't put in because of ordinances, asthetics, the neighbors, whatever hypothetical you want to apply). So now we're at the same as an unmonitored local system.
 
 
Call verification on fire, duress or hold up alarms are not an industry standard by any stretch of the imagination. ECV is also an entirely different animal and topic. AR get around all the liabilities by stating all permitting and verification of requirements for any municipalities are your responsibility. I have yet to see a municipality or AHJ that will allow a call-first before dispatching on any fire signal if they know such a policy exists. Read Article 6 and 8 of AR's contract....unless they've modified it since the last time I read it/downloaded a copy. 
 
As a FYI, AR is not the monitoring company, they are a reseller of services from their vendor, albeit they now reside under the same roof and have done some clever hiding of their past on the net. Not a flame, but merely being informative for those, such as yourself, that might not be familiar with the industry and history over the last 20+ years.
 
 
@ Work.
 
Once you connect any portion of any other system to a system designed to monitor and supervise a fire alarm it becomes part of the FACP or system. It may not be thought of as such, but even the simple and most basic alarm systems out there, as long as they have the ability to connect to a fire component and that ZT exists as a program option within, they are considered a FACP and are governed as such. The extent of the listing (residential, commercial, special hazard, releasing, what have you) is noted on the schematic and any corresponding documentation that comes with it, which will always have the UL/FM listing and extent written in it.
 
There is also very large item that is coming across in this cycle of NFPA regarding testing and operation, since the items connected at the end of modules for items like smoke control, recall, and shutdown need to be verified for actual operation at the connected system, not simply that the module functioned, as they are considered a part of the system as well.....really it means that the officials are now spelling out exactly where the system begins and ends, not terminating at a wire connection to a module, point, what have you, but to the last component that is connected to the system...with the key word really being system.
 
Dell, you sound a little bitter.  I think it is a good place where you live.  stay there.  The sprinkler system tirade is really something.
 
True enough, if you give "little timmy" the passcode and put him on your account as an authorized user, then he can cancel any alarm he wants.  But you wouldn't know that because you obviously have never done business with them and instead choose to speak ill of them despite not a lick of knowledge.  Alarm Relay seems to be doing pretty well, the lawyers from your neck of the woods haven't sued them out of business yet.  I'm sure, however, they can't compare to "your" company.  Given the chance you would write us all a novel on how you are the best.
 
Seriously, take a couple Xanax and get a perspective.  Or is this how you upsell all of your accounts, by trying to scare people with all the BS.
 
And adding the RM4 to a system would not take it out of compliance.  It is designed and UL listed as a part of the first alert smoke detector system.
 
Lou,
 
I have no need to upsell accounts or use scare tactics. Tell me where anything I stated is incorrect or misleading. Factual information Dr. 
 
I'm not bitter, I'm informed. I simply provide you with examples to provide you a factual perspective which happens to contradict with what you believe, which is factually incorrect.
 
The sprinkler post was strictly for your benefit, as you seem to be misinformed and the intent was to draw parallels and similarities to what you are (and have) proposed as doable and legal with another facet in the industry. I provided examples for you to consider, as you seem very dismissive without hard evidence when your opinions and beliefs are called into question. After all, a system like that would be similar in nature to what you are proposing....I'll even simplify it, let's just say we want to use the white PVC on our sprinkler system and not the orange stuff, but leave all the remaining system variables the same....why would that comply or not comply?  It's not a pedantic question, so answer it......Why would that negate the design or listing of the sprinkler system and related hardware?
 
For your convenience, here's the link to one of the artices I'm referencing: http://www.securitysales.com/channel/fire-life-safety/articles/2005/06/using-ancillary-relays-with-smoke-alarms-stirs-controversy.aspx There's more out there, this is only one, which I doubt you'll take the time to read.
 
The magical relay you're citing in your last post specifically is not listed for connection to a FACP, never has, never will be. Look what it's stated in their own documents for connection to....I don't see FACP as a single example. Is it a misleading cut sheet, you bet, but is it listed or intended for that purpose, not a chance. Don't believe it, call BRK. As I stated to you before with other items, give me an email and I'll provide documentation from BRK's engineers or any other manufacturer regarding what you are proposing to do...however, for you to consider first:
 
Get the RM4's installation instructions out:
 
Read the 4th bulleted point in the section labelled WARNING!
 
"The RM4 Relay should not be used to connect groups of alarms with a fire alarm control panel or to interconnect chains of alarms to each other......{snip}"
 
Pretty clear as to what it should not be connected to in my understanding, same as the 350CX. Next you're going to tell me that the M1 with fire detection installed on it does not constitute a FACP.
 
You're wrong. Have yourself a sparkling day.
 
@ Work,
 
Yes, once you land that pair of conductors on the panel and program that ZT as "fire alarm" it is a FACP, even if it's not monitored. Frankly, I'm too lazy to go get my copy of NFPA out and copy the academic definition as NFPA spells it out, but it's out there and easily located..
 
In the case of connecting the M1 to a FA sprinkler system, you can do it, it's legal. Almost every supervisiory switch has 2 sets of isolated contacts. You would leave the original system intact and then connect the second contact to the M1 for remote monitoring purposes. You should have an alarm contact and a supervisory (shutoff valve, etc.) The retard on the flow switch should already be appropriate since you have a siren and strobe installed.
 
I'm not going to get into the discussion of what happens if the AHJ or locale chooses to allow XYZ that contradicts what is already addressed within the code books. An AHJ can say they want whatever they want, however they can't accept less than whatever cycle NFPA is law within your locale.
 
In the case of insurers, the item of contention is what happens when it fails to operate or operate correctly. In the case of connecting HV detectors to a LV system for the purpose of monitoring....the first rule learned is to use listed components installed per manufacturer's instructions, those papers come with the devices for a reason and it's not to protect the contents during shipping. I provided snippits from the hardware cited in this thread that clearly states the equipment is not designed or intended for the purpose it is being installed and connected to. Right there the lightbulb should go on....maybe I shouldn't be doing this.
 
Hypothetically, you tell your insurer you have a monitored fire alarm system in your house, because in your summation, that's what it is. Ok, now you have an event happen....the relay fails to operate, was installed incorrectly, the traveller didn't work, any thing you want to consider.....was the relay part of what was accepted when the TCO or CO was signed? Why did it fail? How come this wasn't caught (of course, we're testing our systems weekly per the manual and annually as covered in NFPA, right?) Who installed the relay? Prove to me that X or Y didn't (or did) cause ABC to happen or fail. What makes you qualified to install Z component and connect it to the host system? What made you qualified to install the host system? How do we know the host system was performing or programmed correctly? Did the monitoring company fail?
 
It's not about a full blown monitored install or mandating a HO to install one...nowhere is that called for in code, nor would any AHJ make you install one (barring a required system or special circumstances). In your case, because you have the horn and strobe, that meets what is covered in code, you are not required to install a monitored system to report alarm and supervisiory, however you may at your discretion (contrary to the commercial world and sprinkler systems). That said, just because you make that connection, it doesn't mean you need to do or install anything else......however it should be inspected and tested at the same time as the sprinkler system is.
 
Dell,
 
You said that insurance won't cover you.  Installing an RM4 and having it trigger an email or call you does not violate code and your insurance will indeed be in effect.  Connecting it to a monitored system violates code because of false signals to the fire department and I pointed that out long before you decided to come in here and bless with your arrogance.  As we have hashed out using "little Timmy" as your example, it doesn't go to the fire department.
 
You are mistaken about sprinklers.  Only if you choose to, may you install a code compliant sprinkler.  If you choose to install a sprinkler, it does not have to follow code.  You simply can not legally refer to it as a fire suppression system.  You can't tell a prospective buyer that it is nor your insurance company. But it's existence is not a violation of a code.  No one would stop you from installing it and no one would make you remove it and no one would fine you.
 
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