Solar Power Basics

Spam

Active Member
I was entertaining the idea of trying out some solar power. I quickly realized I had no clue what I needed. Without getting into power consumption versus need, is it really as simple as this?

Panel outputs DC
Run panel to a deep cycle battery
Batter to DC -> AC converter
Converter to end device?

Granted, I would probably want to invest in gear to monitor/regulate power flow, and something to measure for the best light spot. Thats all specifics. Just looking for a basic setup that I can maybe run 1/2 small devices off of for 1-2 hours a day.

I was looking at a 10W 16.5 V rated panel for about $100 bucks.

Something similar to this.

http://www.solarhome.org/index.asp?PageAct...amp;ProdID=2324

Any help would be appreciated.
 
I was entertaining the idea of trying out some solar power. I quickly realized I had no clue what I needed. Without getting into power consumption versus need, is it really as simple as this?

Panel outputs DC
Run panel to a deep cycle battery
Batter to DC -> AC converter
Converter to end device?

Granted, I would probably want to invest in gear to monitor/regulate power flow, and something to measure for the best light spot. Thats all specifics. Just looking for a basic setup that I can maybe run 1/2 small devices off of for 1-2 hours a day.

I was looking at a 10W 16.5 V rated panel for about $100 bucks.

Something similar to this.

http://www.solarhome.org/index.asp?PageAct...amp;ProdID=2324

Any help would be appreciated.
I too am interested in this but have even more questions. How would one calculate what it would take to run an electic heater for say 6 hours?
 
I was entertaining the idea of trying out some solar power. I quickly realized I had no clue what I needed. Without getting into power consumption versus need, is it really as simple as this?

Panel outputs DC
Run panel to a deep cycle battery
Batter to DC -> AC converter
Converter to end device?

Granted, I would probably want to invest in gear to monitor/regulate power flow, and something to measure for the best light spot. Thats all specifics. Just looking for a basic setup that I can maybe run 1/2 small devices off of for 1-2 hours a day.

I was looking at a 10W 16.5 V rated panel for about $100 bucks.

Something similar to this.

http://www.solarhome.org/index.asp?PageAct...amp;ProdID=2324

Any help would be appreciated.


I would subscribe to this magazine. http://www.homepower.com/home/

I put Solar panels on my Motorhome that could run a small refrigerator, microwave, TV and lights, the refrigerator used about 150 watts when running and it ran about 30%-45% of the time, it could run the batteries down fast when there was no sun. The microwave used about 1000 watts so it could be used for a short time only. I used much higher power panels (85 watts each) then what you linked to.
I used a bunch of 6 volt 220 amp golf cart batteries for storage.

My brother runs his entire house on an off grid Solar system.
 
I too am interested in this but have even more questions. How would one calculate what it would take to run an electic heater for say 6 hours?

Solar does not work well for electric Heating, an electric heater draws a lot of power. A typical plugin 110v space heater can draw 1500 watts on its highest setting so in six hours it would take 9000 watts to run, if you run it off an inverter you have conversion losses when going from DC - AC and lose some power there. I think the inverters I have are about 80% efficient so it takes 100 watts DC to make 80 watts AC. I went on the solar home tour last year and saw a house in my town that has a 12KW solar array and a 10kw windmill, his solar panels were putting out just shy of 9000 watts per hour when I was there, he makes plenty of power for heating but it cost a small fortune for that much power generation.
 
If you are planning to run an electric heater, the conversion losses won't matter since the losses are in the form of heat. Actually the friction from pulling dollars from your wallet to pay for enough cells to generate sufficient current to run a heating system will probably be fairly significant if you can capture that heat.

You might have better luck in having the sun heat water, and then you need to generate much less current to drive motor/pump to distribute the hot water.

Aloha. . . .John
 
What a about an air heat pump, or ground heat pump (geo-thermal)?

Since you're not actually generating the heat, but merely "pumping" it from the air or ground into your house, it needs less energy.

I'm curious if it would be supportable by an solar system? If so, what size?

Tim
 
If you are planning to run an electric heater, the conversion losses won't matter since the losses are in the form of heat. Actually the friction from pulling dollars from your wallet to pay for enough cells to generate sufficient current to run a heating system will probably be fairly significant if you can capture that heat.

You might have better luck in having the sun heat water, and then you need to generate much less current to drive motor/pump to distribute the hot water.

Aloha. . . .John


Most systems I have seen have the inverter near the solar array so it would not be heating the house. Using Solar to heat water is a great way to save money and has the quickest payback, I suppose if you had a large enough array of solar water heating panels you could use it with a radiator system, I have thought about using something like this but using oil to store the heat instead of water. I get a lot of sun here in Southern California so solar works pretty well here. I have seen Air to air systems but don't know how well they work. http://home.att.net/~cleardomesolar/forcedairheater.html http://store.altenergystore.com/Solar-Air-Heating/c469/
some other interesting links. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/01/smallscale_sola.php
http://www.solarpanelsplus.com/
 
Thanks a lot for the info guys. I really appreciate it. While heating is not my primary concern, I'm sure the prinicples will apply to running some basic electronic devices. I'll take a look at those links. Thanks again!
 
Along the same vein I've converted a lot of my display lighting to use LED's. I've also converted under the counter lighting, not so much the task lighting but the soft display lights to LED's. After this had all been running awhile i realized i was using a lot of 12v power supplies to allow me to turn them off and on at the proper times using my HomeSeer system and UPB relay switches to turn on the power supplies.

What i did was get a 30ah deep cycle battery, a 45w solar panel and a small device to protect against over charging. I've since hooked all the LED lighting to the battery, using the individual relays of a 8 port relay board and HomeSeer to control it. It's worked very well and has been flawless so far. According to readings taken off the battery I'm not even close to max-ing it out. I keep finding things that are low voltage that i can put on the battery and get rid of yet another wall wart or power supply. The landscape lighting and cordless phones are next. <_<

I'm keeping it simple at the moment and figure if i ever max out the battery or it runs out of power I'll either add another battery or another solar panel or both and just keep on adding 12v equipment. It's amazing how many things in the house i find that run on 12 volts and use a power supply of some sort to power them.
 
I've been using a "small" system for several years now Spam. I'm going to be upgrading the system from a 150-200 watt 24v battery/inverter system (510 AH of battery storage for inverter). To a 1 kw system with a "grid tie" inverter added so that I can also "net meter" back to the "grid" (run the meter backward when producing more than I use).

The Basic system you describe should be fine for your needs starting out in order to run small, low-current devices "experimentally" just to see what you would really want or need the system to do.

As advised, a PV system is not efficient at running high load items like resistive space heaters or water heaters.

As spring is not too far away now, lets say you want to have back-up or emergency lighting, either LED or DC or AC fluorescent lights.

Here's your list...

Panel: a 10w 12v panel would give you about 2.5 amp/hrs per day if you had 5 hours sun exposure (more of course with more sun). I used the figure from a 10watt Solarex panel.

Battery: Important note here!!! Lead acid batteries( the type most used for storage) "Deep Cycle" or not... DO NOT like to be discharged completely!!! 50% is about the max. and 30% is even better if you want to get the most life out of them. Properly used and maintained, batteries will last quite a long time:).
So for lighting for example, what I would do for a 10 watt panel(figure about 8 watts in actual use, panels are usually rated at 1000 watts per sq. meter of area which is good for the Sahara desert on a sunny day, but not say the midwest :blink:), is to get a battery of twice that size so that using 2.5 amp/hrs wouldn't take it down below 50% of capacity, and the panel (at 5 hours of sun) could "put back" that 2.5 amp hours the next day...

For a system like this you would not need a "Charge Controller" since the Panel would not be capable of overcharging the battery, because of the limited panel current and because the panel current will also reduce as the battery voltage rises at the end of charge.

Inverter: for applications where you would need an inverter to provide AC from DC input there are some things to consider first...

Quality of AC output: some some electrical devices are "fussy" and need a "clean" AC sine wave, some don't care at all, and some will "run" but you can tell that they would rather have the "really good stuff". So Inverters come basically in three "flavors"...

"square wave": basically the cheapest small ones, instead of a smooth sine wave the output just goes positive for a half cycle, then negative for the other half cycle. The Inverters in the "middle" give you a basic "sine wave shape" of the voltage output, but its made of little "digital steps", but works fine for some things. The last category are the "pure sine wave" which the "steps" are filtered to give a basically the same output as comes from the wall plug (only without the noise spikes and voltages variations...).

If I go any farther this is going to become a "Novelette"... but hope it explains a bit:)
 
I am going to try a couple of these to see how well they work. http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchD...mp;ta=prod_info

Wow! $65 for a light bulb. I'm guessing the payback period on that puppy is longer than I'll live. :blink:

The way electricity charges are going in California it may not be such a bad deal. I just want to setup some low power lights that I can run off an inverter if the power goes out. I have had bad luck with CFL's lasting anywhere near as long as they claim here. I have 18 CFL's now (about half my lights) and they are driving me crazy with long startup tmes and uneven lighting. In my master bathroom every CFL now is now a different color, they were all bought at the same time and are from the same company. If the LED bulbs get cheap enough I will start using them where I have CFL's now, I want to see how much light theyget out of that 9 watts also.
 
Thanks again. I might consider doing an 80W panel after looking at the pricing and benefit. I would like to run my small stereo off it for say, 1-2 hours a day, and the occasional Wii game or two. I've not looked at the electric draw for either device yet, but I don't think 10W will do it, unless indeed I chain a battery or two together.

Yes, the midwest is not ideal for solar, but I think I can pull off just a test panel to play with.

Thanks again. Should I consider charge controller with an 80W 12V panel?
 
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