What to do with an M1Gold? Continue to invest or "upgrade" (replace)?

[politics123]

So earlier this week, my M1G keyboards all went dark, even though the unit is powered. Yeay, probably something wrong with the 485 bus.
 
I was about to boot up my old Pentium3/Win95 machien and start troubleshooting, and then it hit me... like all technology, is it time to move on?
 
When I bought and installed my Elk:

• The iPhone hadn't been invented/released
• cellular was still expensive
• Zwave was in its infancy
• X10 was... well... X10  :unsure: 
• and ELK somewhat supported the DIY community.

A lot has changed.
 
I have a bunch of ELK and ELK-compatible gear -- keyboards, expansion zones, wireless, zwave/leviton, HAI thermostats, etc. But for all that, I still feel like a NEST would have higher WAF (and i could at least adjust the temp on my thermostats)
 
Looking for opinions/options. Anyone else with an ELK (or who had an ELK) consider replacing it? Anyone move from ELK to HAI (or some other device better supported by the DIY community)? Given the huge amount of devices on the market, any of the modern systems impress this community?
 
 
Thanks!
Michael
 
PS -- I also have a full, never-used license to CQC. Would love to make use of it at some point. 

 

[pete_c]

@Michael,
 
Sounds like you want to replace it all.  That said do it. 
 
Personally the two first (Elk and HAI) combination security and automation systems while legacy still provide better simple functions relating to security and automation than anything else on the market today.  The icing on the cake for these systems is integration with software.

 

Given the huge amount of devices on the market, any of the modern systems impress this community?

 
Personally no. 

 

[mikefamig]

With technology changing as fast as it is I think that my first priority is to get a system that can integrate with the the largest number of other technologies and secondly whether or not the company will be around in the future.
 
. A NEST hub only works with NEST devices which is fine for now if it suits your needs but the company hasn't been around very long. HAI and ELK have a long proven track record and there are so many installations out there already that there will always be a motive for someone to provide support to them. That was my reasoning in choosing the Elk. Also being that you already have the sensors and keypads wired in your house you probably want to utilize them and I think that a combination security/automation system is a good choice.
 
, Mike.

 

[drvnbysound]

I still feel like a NEST would have higher WAF (and i could at least adjust the temp on my thermostats)

 
Can you explain this a bit more? I have a thermostat integrated with my Elk and I can adjust the temp on my thermostats. I can also change it from my phone remotely.

 

[mikefamig]

I think that the NEST thermostat is controlled wirelessly.
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

For troubleshooting your existing system I would first check for voltage on the rs-485 data bus at the M1 control.
 
 
Mike

 

[drvnbysound]

...I still feel like a NEST would have higher WAF (and i could at least adjust the temp on my thermostats)

 
Right, I'm not really familiar with the control mechanism of Nest at all. I was trying to understand the limitation of the current system... reading the above, I got the impression that the OP could not adjust the temp on current thermostats.

 

[Del91574]

For troubleshooting your existing system I would first check for voltage on the rs-485 data bus at the M1 control.
 
 
Mike

Nail on the head here. Would be the suggestion I'd toss out there as well. With the exception of the basic hardware's age, the M1 is about 10-11 years on the market. Stuff happens and might be something as simple as a bad plug or termination.
 
Keep in mind, all the technologies and devices you mentioned are still in their infancy with the exception of cellular, which is still pricey (if you figure the cost per minute, it certainly hasn't gone down from the $.03 to $.07/minute  I used to pay back almost 20 years ago. The Iphone is.....well, it is what it is.
 
For a robust security platform, not much can really touch what it can do. Even HAI, you'd need to spend 3-4X the sticker value to get a relatively equivalent platform (assuming you have almost all the bells for the M1). Security system changes and upgrades are far more conservative because of UL and other standards and there's a reason for that. If you wanted to be on the bleeding edge, there's products to get you there, but security systems aren't going to be in the same zipcode.

 

[politics123]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Just one follow-up. What is the state of support these days? Elk never truly supported DIYers, but Spanky would log in and help out from time to time. Do we support ourselves these days? What about HAI-- does it better support the DIY community?

 

[mikefamig]

My experience as a DIYer with Elk support has been excellent. I had problems that were caused by my own mistakes and they stuck with me until the problems were all solved.
 
Mike.
 
EDIT
 
I just thought to add that the level of technical support here is higher and deeper than that from Elk. Elk stands behind their product and offers tech support to a reasonable point but when I needed to get down to the more technical details that I needed to get out of trouble it was here at cocoon tech that I found the answers.

 

[pete_c]

Personally here have had no issues getting granular and learning about my OPII panels.  I have too opened Leviton / HAI support tickets and still talk to the same person that I have now for years.  I have tinkered with my panel learning more and more while reading here on the CT forum relating to other users experiences.  I am very far from being an expert and typically here on CT write stuff relating to my experiences. I do read and learn from other Cocoontech members and their experiences.
 
I met Spanky a few years back.  We talked some over a pleasant dinner.  He is older than me and I am older these days.  I am guessing he still lives and breaths Elk at a different pace these days.
 
The support for Elk products on the Cocoontech forum these days comes from other users and commercial installers of the Elk Panel having done much with it over the years. Said Cocoontech Elk users voluntarily provide answers based on their / common knowledgebase here on the forum and other users learn from them and continue the cycle of support right here.
 
Personally I do think that the use of a common cloud based application and shiny widgets on the phone is a good introduction to automation.  
 
Not really sure if it is working yet as there is much more to automation and security than a cell phone widget, wireless do whats (electricity is not wireless yet) and a database/application in internetlandia.  
 
I do see sometimes more often than not lately what happens with a technical overload of information relating to automation and security which folks sometimes rather not know, read, understand or hear about it (being logical and or pragmatic).  It really isn't difficult.  I always mention baby steps.  Absorb the stuff here when you want or not.  It's your decision on how to pace it and the verbiage on this forum doesn't go away after a day or two.  That is one of the benefits of being a member on the forum here.   Everybody here is a guru in their own way of automation because it works for them and many have been doing this stuff for many years.  Here I shorted out a brand new OmniPro II one day in rush to see it working, fat fingering a connection then watching the panel smoke for a few seconds.

 

[ano]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Just one follow-up. What is the state of support these days? Elk never truly supported DIYers, but Spanky would log in and help out from time to time. Do we support ourselves these days? What about HAI-- does it better support the DIY community?

HAI/Leviton support isn't bad.  You really have to understand that the people who buy these systems are installers and a few DIY people so its not like they get 1000's of calls per day. You can write to Leviton, and still get an mail back within a few hours from one of the guys that originally designed the system.  They will ask if you are with a company, but if not they will still work with you. They are knowledgeable, but be respectful and don't write them for questions you can get answered elsewhere.  Beyond that their ability to actually get fixes out seems pretty limited.  They say they will fix things, but does it actually happen, I don't think so in most respects.  99% of the time you can get answers to questions better here.

 

[Dean Roddey]

PS -- I also have a full, never-used license to CQC. Would love to make use of it at some point. 

 
Get your Elk going again, install the V2 CQC Elk driver, and auto-generate some nice touch screen interfaces. For a bit more, get a Weather Underground account and install the weather driver, and against, auto-generate the touch screens. It wouldn't be much work to do.

 

[CORT]

I agree that Elk is long in the tooth and desperately in need of an update, but what else is out there to replace it?  I am not sure there is anything that can replace a full-on Elk system right now.

 

[Del91574]

Really, short of a C4 or other integration using a 3rd party product and possibly replacing the panel so it only spits out basic information/status to a 3rd party controller (IE: Ademco/Honeywell to AMX, Crestron, C4, etc.) but the end result is essentially going to be the same as the M1 with a 3rd party control associated to it.
 
While I'd love to see some more updates to the M1, the OPII is just as "dated" if not more so, and at 3X the cost, and I deal with both products.