Haiku Would you prefer a list type layout in Space?

[2MuchTech]

Functionality is absolutely the most important aspect of a home automation system.  Eye candy might draw people in to your application, but if it's a pain in the butt to actually accomplish any tasks, they won't keep using it.  Haiku has good functionality, and honestly, it doesn't look bad either.  There are some things that could be cleaned up graphically, but overall it's a nice looking interface.  If you could meld some of what you have in Space with the clean list-based functionality of Haiku, you would have a real winner.  The multi-camera view in Space is light years ahead of the camera interface in Haiku, so don't change that back to a list view  But pages of icons in Space is a complete catastrophe for those of us who have lots of objects (i.e. lights, alarm contacts, etc).
 
If you could add some quick-access functions to the list views (see below), that would be ideal.  I'm attaching an example of how I see a blended app looking.  My image editing is horrible, so please disregard how bad the copy and paste looks.  I don't have much of an image editing tool, and I'm not very talented at graphics anyway, but here's what I came up with.  The idea (obviously) is to 1) provide access to the On/Off functionality without forcing the user to click one layer deeper to execute an action (although I would recommend still leaving the detailed control window in case the user needs more than the simple On/Off control in the example below), and 2) use the individual icon idea from Space to make the individual lights more visually representative.
 
 

 

[lupinglade]

What do you guys think of this concept?
 
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:864]
 
The menu for dimming/on/off is opened by sliding your finger across the row. Levels/values are shown as the background and are animated just as in Space currently (but horizontally, of course).
 
My concern is its too bland and many users may not prefer it to the current layout.

 

[fcwilt]

I strongly favor function over form. 
 
A clean, practical, efficient UI is all I want.
 
I don't want a piece of "artwork".

 

[2MuchTech]

I agree with Frederick... The form only has to be decent...the functionality is what matters. To this end, embedding the controls in the list view eliminates the need to visit a second window to carry out an action. Making it look cool will take a little extra effort, but the payoff in superior functionality should be more than worth it.

From the mock-up above, it sounds like you're still thinking that two separate actions would be required to change the lighting level (slide, then tap). It would be much better if you could just embed the controls in the row so a single tap accomplishes the task. When you require two separate actions, it's not too bad if you're only changing one item, but it gets tiresome when you're trying to adjust multiple items.

I really like the way Haiku groups the lights by the same groups that you entered into PC Access. If you want to turn off all the lights in a group, you can do it by operating on the group master item. It also makes it much easier to *find* the light you want, because you already know which group you need to look in, and the group names stand out because of the way the indentation works in the list view (as opposed to Space's icon view, which is a horrible tangle of icons). The list view may not look as sexy, but it's efficient, and I would take it ANY day of the week over the giant screen full of icons.

One potential challenge is trying to make an app that works on both the iPhone and the iPad without changing the way it looks. While I do use Haiku on both types of idevices, I use the iPad a lot more (partly because that's what I have mounted in my walls). I think one potential solution to the problem is to add the quick access controls only to the wide format version of the list displays. It seems like that would be a fairly intuitive difference for users, and coding it this way should be easier than having to come up with two totally different formats. If there's room horizontally to add the on/off/dim controls, they go in the row, otherwise they're only accessible from a tap on the row that brings up the next window (and this same separate window would also appear if the user taps a row even if it's in a wide format mode with icons to the right side).

Anyway, I think you're on the right track with what you just presented, but I really hope you can find a way to allow the user to perform an action right there on the list view. I would also encourage you to try to implement the indented view that Haiku uses to differentiate group masters from group items.

Finally, *please* add a Lit Units button to Space! I use this VERY frequently in Haiku to get to the lights I want to turn off.

 

[twohawks]

I agree with others here... function and access are priority. By all means Space would be improved with list views and less button presses wherever possible. I think 2MuchTech is nailing it in the details.
 
Also, Haiku provides a quick-overview on the home page, but with Space there just some icons - like an entry page to a website (for those of you not as old as I am, that's from the hey-day of when us BBS boys graduated to "internet").  Who's got time and patience for that?  My clients are not going for Space in its current form-factor.

 

[wboy]

Yes, what 2MuchTech said... grouped controls by room with indentations for each individual unit and the least necessary clicks/swipes/steps/renavigation to do any action anywhere on the app.

 

[fearsno1]

I would prefer a list also, I rarely use Space and can't get my wife to use it at all! I am still using Haiku on all devices. I just think Space needs to be simplified

 

[lupinglade]

Whats your feedback on the concept I posted a few posts back?

 

[twohawks]

What do you guys think of this concept?
 
 
 
The menu for dimming/on/off is opened by sliding your finger across the row. Levels/values are shown as the background and are animated just as in Space currently (but horizontally, of course).
 
My concern is its too bland and many users may not prefer it to the current layout.

 
While I find the/a list style way superior to the current icon display (in general), the description still appears to entail having to activate the row item first in order to then access its controls.  I think 2MuchTech is pointing at the better idea toward a solution... i.e., why not have each row item be, itself, the active control.  When viewing a control list you are "already there", so simply facilitate functionality in that row...
 
ItemLabel  Off -----%------%------% ------On   <<--a single row control, no clicking or sliding to show more...
 
...in that row.  If you touch 'off' its off. You touch 'On' it goes on to its last state.  You run your finger and it ramps (dim/bright), or you can touch a percent value and get that ....and the state is always readily apparent just looking at it, perhaps similarly as you have loosely shown in the items above (preceding) "Byd Motn Lt" in your illustrative example.
 
The comment about it being "too bland......to the current layout"  concerns me... I don't know if that means you think the icons presentation has a coolness factor that the row presentation lacks (and users seem to indicate they prefer) ...?  Me and my clients so dislike the icon presentation (its impractical to us) as to find it unusable.  Perhaps we are in the minority.
 
I am not meaning to be cocky or persecutive or otherwise negative with my remarks... only honest and direct.

 

[jdk972003]

twohawks,
 
I am 100% with you.  This is like web page design/functionality.  You want the least # of clicks(taps) possible.  Your approach achieves that. Maybe lose the # labels and just have the slider zone list the current % and have "detents" for the set % points (25, 50, 75).  They do not need to be specifically labeled (its implied by three points between two fixed points)
 
2MuchTech is also perfectly right that the groups should be able to operate the same way, so you do not have to interact with all devices individually.
 
I was going to buy 3 copies of Haiku...then they stopped supporting it as they released Space.  But Space is not intuitive software like Haiku so I refuse to buy it.  And now Its been almost 7 months and Cyaneous, Inc (Lupinglade) STILL has not issued a release addressing everyone's primary concern. And I am small potatoes compared to some of their HAI installers.
 
Its sad and it sucks. 7 months is more than enough time to release a version with an updated interface if it was priority one.  I am annoyed because they had the only decent app in town, and dropped it for this.  So now I am learning HS and CQC.  I haven't bought yet..so keep checking here  to see if Lupinglade can get this done.
 
I am about to spend $600 with someone else vs Cyaneous.  Sucks.

 

[lupinglade]

A new UI is coming, but we want it to be great so it is taking some time. Please continue to post your feedback/suggestions. Below are some of my thoughts:

Having the controls right on the table row will not be practical because the user will end up constantly triggering things while scrolling since the controls will take up plenty of space, especially on iPhone/iPod. Also many controls need more than a row of space to offer a useful level of functionality, on top of which a (sometimes long) name needs to be easily readable as well. For this same reason Apple does not do this in their apps, except rarely for an ON/OFF switch on the far right side. Haiku did not do this either.

What I meant by bland is that the concept UI I previously posted is mostly black and does not offer much potential in terms of customizability. It is very minimalist.

 

[2MuchTech]

My goal is to have an iPad app that replaces the OmniTouch. HAI's latest incarnation is much better than their previous generation touchscreen, but it makes a poor all-purpose home automation control screen. With an iPad you can control your Sonos system, your alarm system & lights, access your live *and* recorded video surveillance, get detailed weather instead of just summary info, etc. As long as there's an app for your hardware, you're covered. Not to mention that future voice activated apps would also run on this platform (and we will never see that on an OmniTouch). I would *much* rather put iPads in my walls than OmniTouches.

So, obviously I'm approaching my suggestions from the angle of maximum iPad functionality, without so much regard for the smaller screen iOS devices. But even so, I believe it's possible to have an interface that accommodates all of these different devices without creating an unacceptable number of user interface inconsistencies.

My push for controlling devices directly from lists (vs using the list to call up a separate control window) is based on my day to day usage of Haiku and realizing that I spend a lot of time calling up and dismissing windows that perform the actual change. Being able to act on a group of devices with one window helps, but I still end up wasting time performing simple On/Off commands on multiple devices that could more easily be accomplished from the list window itself.

I have mounted my in-wall iPads in landscape mode (as the OmniTouch does), so there's actually quite a bit of room on each row to embed some simple controls, even with long device names. When you have to display the current status of the device on the row anyway, why not embed an active control that both displays the current status and also allows the status to be changed?

I would suggest that Space should have a "smart list controls" feature that detects when the screen orientation leaves room for some embedded controls and automatically activates them. There could be a user option to disable this behavior for people who don't want the embedded controls on their lists. So in the case of lights, the On/Off control would already easily fit on the right side of the row. If the user wants to call up the more versatile control window (i.e. the existing Haiku control window), they tap anywhere except the On/Off control. I liked your idea of a slide left/right gesture telling Space that you want to perform an action, but it would be *much* better if such a slide action popped up a temporary window (much like the magnifying glass in iOS) that showed the current dimming state and followed the finger sliding action in real time with a slide control on the pop-up window. When the user lifts their finger, the temporary window disappears. These embedded controls shouldn't cause any interference with user attempts to scroll the list. If you're really worried that the sliding action could disrupt scrolling the list, you could make the slider pop-up temporary window appear only after the user has performed a long-press on the row.

I realize that not everyone who's buying Space is doing so to run it on wall mounted iPads, but I'm pretty confident that with some careful planning you can create a single app that has a largely consistent user interface across different screen size devices, and still integrate some controls into the lists. The end result would be a kick-ass replacement for the OmniTouch that also works well on smaller devices. I've seen numerous people in various forums who are crying for a high quality iPad app that can replace the quirky and limited functionality OmniTouch, so I know I'm not the only one thinking along these lines. If I thought it would require sacrificing ease of use on smaller screen devices I wouldn't be so vocal about this, but I believe I've thought through enough of the details to feel confident that both types of users can be addressed in a single app, and you've got the basic foundation in place already.

 

[lupinglade]

I think we've figured out a more efficient navigation solution for iPad: a list on the side of all the items (with status info) and tapping changes the right side to a full large control view for the tapped item. This ends up being more efficient as there is no need to go back/forward and its easy to see all the items at once, while still having full control over the selected item. This ends up using the screen space most efficiently it seems.

This will of course only work on iPad. On smaller devices there will still be navigation as its simply not realistic to fit that much control onto a tiny screen, but we might put the most basic controls there on the list on iPhone/iPod.

 

[2MuchTech]

I'm anxious to see this new layout in Space. I still prefer the idea of not having to perform two taps to complete a simple action (i.e. On/Off), but your suggested layout at least means there won't be a separate window to dismiss when you're done with an action. It's definitely a big improvement over the current method.

Are you going to implement a "Lit Units" filter like Haiku has for light devices? Also, are you planning on adding the same grouping feature to lights that Haiku has? This really improves functionality and is obviously quite simple to understand visually in a list view.

Finally, I know you already have an "Insecure" view in Space, and it's very nice to have this, but if (when) you convert Space to list format, I would prefer if the insecure zones automatically showed up in their own group at the top of the list. It might be a good idea to also keep the insecure zones in their default area zones (like Haiku does) so the user can find it where they normally look for it too (i.e. each insecure zone would show up twice in the list... once at the top in a system-generated "Insecure" group, and once in its default group).

Oh, and I just saw your post about integrating support for Amazon's Echo. I don't have an Echo yet, but I would definitely get one (several?) if it could control my OmniPro system. I've been waiting for Castle to support HAI, but I haven't seen anything that says they do yet, and I think it's been on their to-do list for several years now, but from what I'm reading about Echo, it sounds like a great solution once there's an interface to HAI. BTW, while it would be nice if it "just worked" with Space, I'd also be willing to pay for an additional app license to get this functionality.