Zwave - Primary Controllers

[batwater]

Well, Smarthome got VRC0P back in stock. No mentioning of +3 or locks support. I'll try to call them. Perhaps they might verify that it's the new one.

Thanks for sharing. I ended up ordering with ASI Home yesterday. They specifically call out on the website the VRC0P's new security capabilities and that it's firmware can be upgraded.

-Ben

 

[jwilleke]

I have found that Z-Wave is just fails when it comes to the controller areas.
 
I hope some one can point me to an Primary controller that really works, consistently.
 
The primary controller is a single point of failure and they fail and lose configurations a lot. 
 
Then there is the "inclusion" process. 
So you have to be within 3 feet of the device to include? What the heck.
So you need to pick up your server and haul or dismount a device from the wall it into the other room?
Who thought that was a good idea?
 
This is 2013. We have all kinds of discovery protocols available to do these things.
 
And can you back up your configuration?
 
I know I have tried several different primary controllers and none of them work well at all.

• Leviton hand-held VRCPG-0SG 
• Vera 2
• Aeon LABs 2 Stick 
• Think Essentials Professional Edition

Like I said, I hope someone has a good idea as to what to use.
 
Thanks
-jim

 

[Dean Roddey]

Security is the underlying reason for that. The problem with discovery protocols is that anyone who manages to get onto your network (either your actual network or some wireless network tech. you use) can use them against you and hijack your gear. Requiring that you be close to the module, and to press a physical button on it, to add/remove it reduces the risk of someone hijacking them.
 
Given that network and internet security seemingly trends towards zero over time, I think it's foolish to use any device that allows automatic takeover of control of by anyone who manages to get onto the network. Requiring manual, physical addition of devices, or knowledge that someone could only get by physically getting to the device, is not perfect but it's a lot safer.

 

[ddennerline]

Personally, I feel that Z-Wave's reliance on physical proximity enrollment is a major negative to technology. The designer could have used a written barcode that is similar to how GE Crystal transmitters are enrolled. Climbing up/down stairs with a dongle no matter how much it weights is dumb. From what I can tell, the Node Naming command doesn’t seem to work when controller is multiple hops away. You are sort of forced to use some type of device with keyboard.  
 
Physical proximity enrollment is simpler to implement because it doesn’t require any cryptographic exchange. I suspect now that Z-Wave supports encryption, ZenSys could do away with archaic device enrollment procedure.
 
[SIZE=11pt]As for primary controller, RFIT is a good primary controller before the latest v1.1.1.0. Supposedly update is coming that fixes previous regressions.[/SIZE]

 

[jwilleke]

Thanks for the feedback.
 
I was using the  vizia rf installer tool and installed on a laptop it worked. Until the latest release. I have tried in vain to contact them about the issue.
Which also makes me question if you want to trust someone who would release something which does not work. It has ALWAYS been buggy, now it just crashes constantly.
 
Interface is terrible and way too many terms in Z-Wave used by vendors conflict each other.  (Rooms, Zones etc)
 
Needless to say, being without a primary is not an easy condition to overcome and points out another issue with Z-Wave as a single point of failure.
With many Primary controllers, there is no method to backup the network.
 
AFIK, if you loose the primary, then the network is lost.
 
Oh, and so someone can not steal your network unless I am within three feet of your controller? Well not exactly what I would call secure.
 
-jim

 

[vc1234]

"now it just crashes constantly."
 
That's correct.  The installer "tool" crashes even with innocuous (one would have thought) actions like right-clicking on a device icon to display properties. What kind of developers do those folks employ ?

 

[Dean Roddey]

Physical proximity enrollment is simpler to implement because it doesn’t require any cryptographic exchange. I suspect now that Z-Wave supports encryption, ZenSys could do away with archaic device enrollment procedure.

 
I'm not sure that helps that much. Cryptographic exchange allows the two end points of a conversation to be reasonably sure that they are talking to who they think they are (if public key encryption is implemented), and that anyone in between will have to work harder to know what they are talking about (symmetric key encryption.) But the whole enrollment thing is outside of that. The whole point of enrollment is that a new controller is taking over control of the module, and therefore any previously set up encryption is now negated, and the module takes on whatever encryption key the new controller tells it.
 
So I'm not sure how encryption per se reduces the possibility of hijack. If there is not any physical action required on the part of the person setting up the network, to tell the module it is ok to accept new ownership, then the problem always remains. Or, alternatively, as you mention with the bar code, you tell the control something about the module that only someone in physical possession of it could know, so that the controller can use that in the remote enrollment.