Elk M1 Gold vs EZ8

T

TeleFragger

Active Member
Ok so BraveSirRobbin gave us the link for the Elk M1 Gold and EZ8 comparision.

I do not know this side of the spectrum but will have to learn it as the wife wants me to find out more about it.

The link that was given is http://www.elkproducts.com/products/m1/M1_Control_Family.htm


now I need to know which would be a better choice for me... of course anyone can say the Elk M1 Gold

however I need to give my current config and move on from there..

I use Homeseer v2
x10 everywhere - fairly reliable
3 insteon switches - not installed yet but installed the 2414u and homeseer plugin


so my current adt system - caretaker system is not integrated into my home automation..
so after my other posting about adt...
my wife gave me the ok to look into a different solution...


so I am noticing stuff like the elk m1 gold has insteon or upb
do I really need that?

I do not want to use the elk system for more than an alarm system that I can have monitored. I do not really wish to use it to control my home automation.

what benefits are there going with the new ez8 from elk?

also i noticed that the serial adapter is an option on the ez8 and does not do the voices. What do they mean by that?

should I try and suck it up and just buy the gold? I just dont want to go overkill and have a system I will not use fully where I could have gotten away with the cheaper one....

any help appreciated.
Jeff
 
TeleFragger said:
should I try and suck it up and just buy the gold? I just dont want to go overkill and have a system I will not use fully where I could have gotten away with the cheaper one....
Click to expand...

There is no one right answer that works for everybody... it depends on what type of person you are. Type A hates to buy anything more than exactly what is needed and will buy 630 feet of wire at the per foot price because he could not stand buying a full thousand foot roll and having extra that he will never use. Type B will buy the coffee pot with the automatic timer on it for $10 more even though he has never used that feature in his life because he doesn't want to risk not having it if he discovered a use for it later.

I don't think there is enough of a difference in the price of the EZ8 to make it worth giving up the features of the M1 even if I don't use them right away, but then I am definitely more of a Type B person.
 
TeleFragger said:
Ok so BraveSirRobbin gave us the link for the Elk M1 Gold and EZ8 comparision.

I do not know this side of the spectrum but will have to learn it as the wife wants me to find out more about it.

The link that was given is http://www.elkproducts.com/products/m1/M1_Control_Family.htm


now I need to know which would be a better choice for me... of course anyone can say the Elk M1 Gold

however I need to give my current config and move on from there..

I use Homeseer v2
x10 everywhere - fairly reliable
3 insteon switches - not installed yet but installed the 2414u and homeseer plugin


so my current adt system - caretaker system is not integrated into my home automation..
so after my other posting about adt...
my wife gave me the ok to look into a different solution...


so I am noticing stuff like the elk m1 gold has insteon or upb
do I really need that?

Depends on your future progression. Do you plan on upgrading X-10 to another technology in the future?

I do not want to use the elk system for more than an alarm system that I can have monitored. I do not really wish to use it to control my home automation.

This is a shame. Sounds like you never really got to explore the wonders of a programmable logic controller (such as the Ocelot). If you did wet your tast buds you would actually like it over any other PC based automation system. The Elk isn't a match for the Ocelot, but it does do a lot of home automation tasks well. It is nice to be able to integrate lighting, voice announcements, relay outputs, etc... with the security system (doors/windows opening, motion sensor detected) without a computer.

what benefits are there going with the new ez8 from elk? You mean vs a Caddx or ADT system? One biggie would be ease of programming.

also i noticed that the serial adapter is an option on the ez8 and does not do the voices. What do they mean by that?

I'm guessing the EZ8 will require an external expansion card to get serial port integration. Also, there are no voices. The quality of the Elk M1Golds voices isn't the same say, as your HomeSeer system, but it is good enough for the routine announcements most need. Plus, as I stated above, this doesn't require a PC interface.

should I try and suck it up and just buy the gold? I just dont want to go overkill and have a system I will not use fully where I could have gotten away with the cheaper one....

Exactly what is the price difference? Sounds like you will also have to purchase an expansion card with the EZ8 to integrate with a PC so also take that into account when comparing price. As upstatemike said, it really depends what you want to do in the future. I myself, would rather pay a little extra, go through the installation hassles, and learning curve once, and have a lot of future capability to boot!
any help appreciated.
Jeff
Click to expand...

Hope this helps. I'm sure a lot of others who have way more Elk M1 experience than I can comment further. ;)
 
TeleFragger said:
I do not want to use the elk system for more than an alarm system that I can have monitored. I do not really wish to use it to control my home automation.
Click to expand...
In that case even the EZ8 is overkill. True, the Elk is a great alarm system, but the power is what you can do with automation and rules. You may want to reconsider the Concord or Caddx and save your $ if all you want is an alarm. It will be alot more of a PITA to setup initially, but if all you are doing is security, then it should just be a 1 time setup.

OTOH I have heard many before you say they want the M1 for alarm only and once they got the taste for how powerful it was and how easy it was to harness that power, they started using all the automation functions.

Only you can decide that. And no, you don't need Insteon or UPB support if just keeping x10. You don't need the serial port on the EZ8 to use as a standalone alarm, but if you want to interface it to Homeseer or something you will. The voice is just that - a built in voice for announcements, chimes, etc. Has a 500+ word vocabulary.
 
hmmm well I guess I will price both the elks when the time comes (tax time) as the wife did not shrug to the $500 rough price I mentioned to her.....

I guess I am torn in the confusion of this...


my Home Automation is not huge... and works fine....
if I went with the elk m1 gold... I could have that control say my lights - however how does it integrate into homeseer? Homeseer will no longer be controlling the lights?

example here is this...


you open my garage door from the house to the garage:
1. ds10a triggers that it is open
2. w800 receives this and sends to HS
3. HS event says if it is open turn the garage light on (ws467)
4. Walk into garage and do stuff..... when no motion is detected (hawkeye ii) motion off sent
5. w800 receives this and sends to HS
6. HS event says no motion turn garage light off

simple but yet effective....


how would integrating that into the elk be more benefitial?

I have a palm pad that I use in the garage...
a code for each

1. turns on/off Petes Wicked Brews neon sign (appliance module)
2. turns on/off Bush light sign (appliance module)
3. turns on/off Anheisure bush sign (appliance module)
4. turns track lights on/off (appliance module)
5. turns on/off air compressor (sr227)
6. turns on/off power tools outlet (sr227)


so even using the elk.. I would have the palmpad talk to the w800 antennea and into HS or would I have the elk control the events?

sorry for the newbish q's....

thanks
Jeff
 
TeleFragger said:
if I went with the elk m1 gold... I could have that control say my lights - however how does it integrate into homeseer? Homeseer will no longer be controlling the lights?

The ultimate system uses a programmable logic controller to control "critical" items that just CAN'T fail and a PC for the gingerbread stuff and "human-machine interface (HMI)". This is actually a standard way of doing thing for the controls industry.

You still need HomeSeer (or CQC or ???) to maintain this interface, but only have it do items like touch screen support, Email alerts, i.e. items the logic controller can not do. The PC is considered an extremely complex environment when compared to a logic controller. A logic controller can't do everything a PC can, but what it can do it does with minimal hardware/firmware and without failure.

example here is this...
you open my garage door from the house to the garage:
1. ds10a triggers that it is open
2. w800 receives this and sends to HS
3. HS event says if it is open turn the garage light on (ws467)
4. Walk into garage and do stuff..... when no motion is detected (hawkeye ii) motion off sent
5. w800 receives this and sends to HS
6. HS event says no motion turn garage light off

simple but yet effective....

how would integrating that into the elk be more benefitial?

I have a palm pad that I use in the garage...
a code for each

1. turns on/off Petes Wicked Brews neon sign (appliance module)
2. turns on/off Bush light sign (appliance module)
3. turns on/off Anheisure bush sign (appliance module)
4. turns track lights on/off (appliance module)
5. turns on/off air compressor (sr227)
6. turns on/off power tools outlet (sr227)

so even using the elk.. I would have the palmpad talk to the w800 antennea and into HS or would I have the elk control the events?

Well, let me give you one scenario of configuration you can achieve using the Elk M1 Gold. You can have a W800 interface directly with the Elk M1 Gold via an added serial expansion card. This way you will not need the computer to support your palm pad. Also, the theory here is you will get rid of your DS10A's for critical door/window/motion sensor monitoring and go with conventional security type hardware. Also, you could incorporate "key fobs" instead of using a palm pad for security purposes (say you only want to turn on your power tools and not your kids if they got hold of a palm pad). You could also turn over a lot of these tasks to the Elk's keypad "functional" buttons.

sorry for the newbish q's....

These are great questions and I'm sure others will give their opinions as well! In the end though remember that these are my opinions and I'm just trying to show you the options and versatility you can achieve in the future.

thanks
Jeff
Click to expand...
 
once again.. greatly appreciated...

I like some of the options the elk has to offer too..

like the doorbell accessory....

I dont use the palm pad to say keep the kids from turning on the power tools outlet... usually that has anything plugged into it and is my way to shut stuff of that I want to later.. example is I had the battery charger on my truck... for a day at full boost.. I went to work and wanted to shut it off.. use hs to shut it off.....


one thing I did notice is no wireless keypad?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I can get 1 keypad downstairs to replace the one i have now... and could wire it.... not too difficult... however replacing my keypad in my master bedroom would be a pita trying to wire... I have not successfully found a way to get wires from my basement to my attic yet as I want to do the ds18s20 temp sensors......


I am thinking if I was building a new house... this would be the way for me... the elk looks great.. however now I am looking.... and bear with me.. im not saying I am going to it but..... the concord 4 or caddx maybe my better solution... cheaper and at the level I may want to be at....

I will have to weigh it in once we get our tax return and sit down and figure out what to do....

All of my alarm systems couldnt be wired into the elk (or it could but I think that would be too much work)
hmmm my head hurts now... I just looked at the elk manual and BOY IS THAT PUPPY FULL OF STUFF!!!!!


~Jeff
 
Some people prefer hardware based systems for "mission critical" functions. I do a few things with my ELK-M1 that I would not be able to do with a PC based system for automation (at least not easily).

In a fire or CO alarm my M1 will announce the location of the fire or CO (then sound the siren), turn on the lights, shut off the furnace etc (in the future it will shut off the clothes dryers and the gas feed to the house when I get around to those things).

With a water leak detected it wil announce the location of the leak, shut off the water supply, and then email my cell phone. I also set up a water sensor by the drain for the washing machines and it will shut off the washing machines should the drain overflow (happened a few times). I need to do the same for the dishwasher in the future.

Flash outside lights if the alarm went off to make sure nobody walks into the house when the alarm went off and also alert the responders to the location of the house easier.

A few not so critical things (but nice to have)

Turn the dehumidifier off at 9 pm (its to loud and keeps the kids up) but if we are not home and the system is armed away it continues to run until we get home and disarm the system. The system turns it back on at 7 am on weekdays (9 on weekends).

Shut off lights and some wall ac units when we arm away and its daytime (kids always leave bathroom or bedroom lights on etc).

Announce if the back door is opened after 9 pm (it is often left unlocked after letting the dog in at night and we rarely arm stay). this is the most likely place a burglar would break in our house at night. If the door opens it turns the inside and outside lights on as well. It once caught our son sleepwalking and going to let the dog in/out in the middle of the night.

There are lots of other little things you can find uses for an M1. A hardware based system is more reliable than a PC based system in some peoples opinion.
 
You've created some nice HA features based on the venerable X10 protocol and its many modules. It is cheap and with some creativity, as you've demonstrated, and an HA program (like Homeseer) can accomplish some amazing things.

So ... why do you want to move to an integrated security/automation controller like an Elk M1? This is not a rhetorical question ... honestly, why? You'll spend more money to re-create the things you already have. If you're happy with what you have then there's no need to upgrade.

Unless of course you're looking for improved reliability ...

The components of your garage-door monitoring system are not supervised (i.e. they are not monitored continuously and you are not notified if something is inoperative). The M1 supervises its zones and informs you when there's a problem. It also provides a rock-solid platform for integrating security, automation, wired/wireless devices, etc.

If you're satisfied with what you've built, and how it performs, then why change it?

BTW, I have an M1.
 
123 said:
You've created some nice HA features based on the venerable X10 protocol and its many modules. It is cheap and with some creativity, as you've demonstrated, and an HA program (like Homeseer) can accomplish some amazing things.

So ... why do you want to move to an integrated security/automation controller like an Elk M1? This is not a rhetorical question ... honestly, why? You'll spend more money to re-create the things you already have. If you're happy with what you have then there's no need to upgrade.

Unless of course you're looking for improved reliability ...

The components of your garage-door monitoring system are not supervised (i.e. they are not monitored continuously and you are not notified if something is inoperative). The M1 supervises its zones and informs you when there's a problem. It also provides a rock-solid platform for integrating security, automation, wired/wireless devices, etc.

If you're satisfied with what you've built, and how it performs, then why change it?

BTW, I have an M1.
Click to expand...


valid points...

did you see my original post of this....
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=8917&hl=




anyway the nutshell....

#1... adt is in and operational....however

when I arm my alarm P ALL ON is sent 4 times then after 5 minutes P ALL OFF is sent 4 times...
ok so if I had items on P they would turn on and off...
Well I want to disable this feature which adt will have to come out and do

Instead of the P ALL ON and P ALL OFF upon alarm enable, disable I want the tech to look into, as it has to be available, that a different code triggers when the alarm is actually tripped..... then I can create a virtual device in homeseer and yes homeseer can email me, text my cell, call people, etc......


#2 upon looking into #1 I found the manual for my adt system and noticed the 1994 date on it.. well it is an old system and if I am overpaying adt $48ish a month.. I want a new system... bring it up to todays technology.... and still get out of it what I want in #1

upon investigating these issues and posting up here.. I have realized I am paying waaaay too much and would use next alarm or someone to monitor my system and get rid of adt.... now I am in the "Look Into Phase" as what will work for me....
if I was building a new house.... hell yeah id go M1 Gold with no second thoughts...

however with my only real concern is to replace my old but functional alarm with something new(er) and able to integrate into Homeseer I have found options... either of the elk systems or something else.....

My wife has not been hip on the home automation.. even at times she gets mad at me and we argue about it.. but I am trying to bring her around to it...

I would just have next alarm monitor what i have in place but I dont think adt will just give me the installer code so I can go in and change the phone number... also I dont know how to interface the current system in place.......

so I would have to buy something.....

Please reply back as this is not a arguementative post but very informant to me!!!!!

I appreciate it all....

my current caretaker system is fully functional..... ALL wireless... everything from what I can tell...

9 door window sensors
2 glass breaks
2 keypads
2 basement window bars
mess of smoke detectors and 1 carbon monixide detector (carbon something detector :rolleyes: )


but anyway.. also check out my quick thing I threw together as someone gave me some space...
it is not great as I am not a web designer but can bring you to see what I have done thus far....


http://techha.com/community/telefragger/index.html
 
upstatemike said:
TeleFragger said:
one thing I did notice is no wireless keypad?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Click to expand...

I was not aware that anybody had wireless keypads. Are you saying you have that on your current system?
Click to expand...


yes both keypads are wireless....


here is an ebay link to my actual panel
it is weird because it looks like this keypad has wires behind it..
but I replaced the batteries to both of my keypads and they are both wireless...

but this is what they look like...


http://cgi.ebay.com/ITI-CareTaker-Plus-Ala...1QQcmdZViewItem
 
No, I'm not taking this as an agrument (are you here for an argument??, never mind...Monty Python reference...)

Like stated before you have to take your individual situation (which really varies between homes) into account.

Another thing to keep in mind (I'm not a wireless sensor expert) is to insure that your current sensors are compatible with whatever new security system you choose.

There are other security types out there that can interface with HomeSeer well. I myself use a Caddx NX8e. I also have an Ocelot with input and output expansion modules (and this is interfaced with HomeSeer as well). I configured this setup before the Elk was even a little moosling (is that the correct term? :rolleyes: ).

Anyway, I found myself wiring inputs and outputs together between the Caddx and Ocelot systems as I wanted home automation capabilities with the security system. I also wanted the timer functionality that the Ocelot gave.

I HATE the fact that my W800 will only interface to the computer.

In retrospects I installed an Elk M1 Gold for my friend. He does not do a lot of automation yet, but it's nice to know he can when he gets the time (built house himself and was not a current priority). Also, I really liked (almost enjoyed) programming the Elk over the Caddx NX8e. It is nice to have home automation functionality combined with the security system (i.e. I don't have to go into two separate systems like my setup).
 
BraveSirRobbin said:
No, I'm not taking this as an agrument (are you here for an argument??, never mind...Monty Python reference...)

Like stated before you have to take your individual situation (which really varies between homes) into account.

Another thing to keep in mind (I'm not a wireless sensor expert) is to insure that your current sensors are compatible with whatever new security system you choose.

There are other security types out there that can interface with HomeSeer well. I myself use a Caddx NX8e. I also have an Ocelot with input and output expansion modules (and this is interfaced with HomeSeer as well). I configured this setup before the Elk was even a little moosling (is that the correct term? :rolleyes: ).

Anyway, I found myself wiring inputs and outputs together between the Caddx and Ocelot systems as I wanted home automation capabilities with the security system. I also wanted the timer functionality that the Ocelot gave.

I HATE the fact that my W800 will only interface to the computer.

In retrospects I installed an Elk M1 Gold for my friend. He does not do a lot of automation yet, but it's nice to know he can when he gets the time (built house himself and was not a current priority). Also, I really liked (almost enjoyed) programming the Elk over the Caddx NX8e. It is nice to have home automation functionality combined with the security system (i.e. I don't have to go into two separate systems like my setup).
Click to expand...

no im not argueing but wanted to get that said as it seemed i was rambling...


also yeah I know what you mean.... this will take some time for me to determine....

I do want to get my 1 wire ran into my attic soon.. so that will prompt the ability for me to wire in keypads if I went elk...

Thank goodness that the government never likes giving your money back... so it will be a while when I file to get my return... ;)
so I got some time.....
 
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