Advice in Designing new Elk System

[rmf]

The M1DBHR creates 4 independent data busses. Like the main M1 data bus, each M1DBHR data bus can have 2 branches. So a single M1DBHR will give you the ability to attach up to 8 home run cabled devices (wired with 4 conductor cables) to the M1DBHR. Plus, you still have the ability to attach other devices to the second branch of the main M1 bus.

Also, assuming some of your other M1 devices are local to the M1 itself, or cabled with Catx cable, you can attach one or more of them to a M1DBHR branch as the first device(s) and then daisy chain them to a 4 conductor keypad cable as the last device of the branch.

Here's an example...
[edit: oops... somehow the picture failed to embed]
View attachment 11212
To confuse things even further, you could wire up the 3 devices in the example above without even using a M1DBHR. You just have to wire the keypad as the last device in the chain since it only has a 4 wire cable and it would presumably be difficult to daisy chain beyond it.

With your 3 keypads, you will need to use the M1DBHR since otherwise you would only have the 2 branches of the M1 to work with.

Terminating the data bus(es) can get tricky if you've never had to do it before. The M1DBHR instructions have some good examples of how to properly terminate things.

Makes sense. The issue is that these are pre-wired home-runs. I don't have an easy way to run an additional wire, and I'm not opening walls for this project.

But what I know I could choose do is wire one of those KPs "through" the RF module assuming the location of the RF module works out (current location of the module for the Concord system seems to be working just fine).

One question looking at your wiring diagram - I have 4-conductor "alarm wire" in home-runs from the keypad to the current Concord. Why am I seeing reference to 6 wire conductor on this diagram? I don't have that and as I said - I don't want to run new wire unless I have no other options....

 

[RAL]

Makes sense. The issue is that these are pre-wired home-runs. I don't have an easy way to run an additional wire, and I'm not opening walls for this project.

But what I know I could choose do is wire one of those KPs "through" the RF module assuming the location of the RF module works out (current location of the module for the Concord system seems to be working just fine).

One question looking at your wiring diagram - I have 4-conductor "alarm wire" in home-runs from the keypad to the current Concord. Why am I seeing reference to 6 wire conductor on this diagram? I don't have that and as I said - I don't want to run new wire unless I have no other options....

If you home run 6 or 8 wire cable to the other devices, such as the M1XIN or RF module, then those devices can be located anywhere and can still be part of the same branch that the keypads connect to.

2 wires of the cable would bring the data bus data signals (Data A & Data B) to the device, 2 wires would daisy chain A&B back and connect to the next device. Another 2 wires would be used for power (+12V and NEG). All the cables would be home runs, and you would connect the return data signals from one cable to the next cable at the panel location. If you use 8-wire CATx cable, the remaining two wires can be used to double up on power and reduce voltage drop over the chain.

Hopefully, this diagram will make it easier to see. Although I show the daisy chain wired directly to the M1, it could also be a branch of a M1DBHR. Note that the cable to the keypad requires only 4 conductors, as it is the last one in the daisy chain and doesn't need to connect to anything else.

A M1DBH (not the M1DBHR) makes these connections for you on a convenient sized circuit board.

 

[RAL]

One question for you - if you were redoing this project today, would you select Elk again?

I ask because the Elk technology is .... still sorta old. I know the alarm system "space" changes slowly due to the life/safety implications.

I did some digging today on the parts that are used on the M1 board. The key part that would be difficult to find a substitute for is the microprocessor. It is a Freescale (now NXP) MMC2114, a 32-bit processor that first became available in 2002.

As of 2023, NXP has discontinued it, with a last time order date of 6/1/2023 and final delivery date of 12/15/2023. Presumably, Elk has been aware of this and stockpiled enough parts to meet their needs for new sales and repair parts for some amount of time. A 5 year stockpile would not be unreasonable. At a minimum, they need enough parts to carry them through to the point that the E27 becomes available (even though it is not a drop-in replacement), as well as handling repairs.

That puts some pressure on them to get the E27 out the door, though development schedules don't always go as smoothly as people would like. Once the E27 is available, I would expect Elk to discontinue new sales of the M1 rather quickly. M1 distributors will still have some amount of new stock for a while.

I wouldn't say this is a reason to absolutely avoid the M1 for a new system today, but you should be aware of what may lie ahead. The trouble is, there isn't a good alternative right now.

 

[rmf]

If you home run 6 or 8 wire cable to the other devices, such as the M1XIN or RF module, then those devices can be located anywhere and can still be part of the same branch that the keypads connect to.

2 wires of the cable would bring the data bus data signals (Data A & Data B) to the device, 2 wires would daisy chain A&B back and connect to the next device. Another 2 wires would be used for power (+12V and NEG). All the cables would be home runs, and you would connect the return data signals from one cable to the next cable at the panel location. If you use 8-wire CATx cable, the remaining two wires can be used to double up on power and reduce voltage drop over the chain.

Hopefully, this diagram will make it easier to see. Although I show the daisy chain wired directly to the M1, it could also be a branch of a M1DBHR. Note that the cable to the keypad requires only 4 conductors, as it is the last one in the daisy chain and doesn't need to connect to anything else.

A M1DBH (not the M1DBHR) makes these connections for you on a convenient sized circuit board.

View attachment 11213

I think I understand what you are saying here and the diagram is very helpful. I need to sit down and map it out but I do believe i see what you are saying.

Thanks so much for taking the time.

 

[rmf]

I did some digging today on the parts that are used on the M1 board. The key part that would be difficult to find a substitute for is the microprocessor. It is a Freescale (now NXP) MMC2114, a 32-bit processor that first became available in 2002.

As of 2023, NXP has discontinued it, with a last time order date of 6/1/2023 and final delivery date of 12/15/2023. Presumably, Elk has been aware of this and stockpiled enough parts to meet their needs for new sales and repair parts for some amount of time. A 5 year stockpile would not be unreasonable. At a minimum, they need enough parts to carry them through to the point that the E27 becomes available (even though it is not a drop-in replacement), as well as handling repairs.

That puts some pressure on them to get the E27 out the door, though development schedules don't always go as smoothly as people would like. Once the E27 is available, I would expect Elk to discontinue new sales of the M1 rather quickly. M1 distributors will still have some amount of new stock for a while.

I wouldn't say this is a reason to absolutely avoid the M1 for a new system today, but you should be aware of what may lie ahead. The trouble is, there isn't a good alternative right now.

Thank you again for the input. Good to know but like you said.... No other great options at the moment.....

 

[RAL]

I received an e-mail today from Elk that says the new E27 alarm panel is now shipping. Dealers can sign up to purchase a discounted demo system. No further details given. The Elk product page still shows all the various parts as "coming soon." But maybe some distributors will start offering the E27 for sale sometime soon.

Elk also announced a new 7" touch screen that can be used with both the E27 and M1.

https://www.elkproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/ELK-Touchscreen-Data-Sheet.pdf

 

[NormandyHA]

Not sure what Elk Product's parts availability concern might be. Perhaps purchased the processor rights? Brand new E27 dealer training video dropped this week and several minutes are spent to explain it is not a replacement for the M1G and the M1G is still their premiere panel.

Also seems the E27 from the explanation is the M1EXP installed directly on that board.

 

[rmf]

Hi everyone - Thanks again for all the support a few months ago. System is up and running well at this point. Properly integrated with home assistant, All sensors appear to be functioning, no false alarms yet, etc. Overall I'm very happy with the system.

I do have one issue I was hoping for some input on. I have the SWB14 enclosure mounted on the wall in the utility room. Somehow, I no longer have the door for the unit. I was looking for a replacement door but I've been unable to find one.

Any suggestions on where to obtain a door without buying an entirely new enclosure? I see there are flush mount doors available - would it be an issue to use a flush mount door on a surface mounted panel?

I saw some other posts from a few years back positing the potential for insurance issues with a non elk enclosure utilized - would just like to avoid that...

Thanks!