Alarm/Security Screen, PIR Curtain, PE Beam, or ?

[johngalt]

I have a smallish 1600 square foot one story house.  The weather here is starting to be nice and we have had the windows open.
 
I have an ELk M1 with the door contacts, PIR, and glass breaks throughout the house.  I also have the Elk two way wireless window sensors (Elk 6021) on double hung windows.
 
The motions are only armed while away.  This means at night with a window open someone could climb in through the window and not be detected.  I am not as concered with the windows in the master bedroom as we would likely here them as the window is feet from the bed.  But there are about 4-6 windows in the house that I would like to increase security while they are open.
 
Here are the options I am considering:
 

1. Enable motion in non bedroom areas- We can do this, but with a baby I see us being groggy in the middle of the night and going to get something from the kitchen and setting off the alarm.  Not ideal.
2. Venting magnets - I am okay with this option however, I don't know how to do it with the Elk 6021 and double hung windows with some level of aesthetics.  I could switch to wired or a recessed wireless sensor.  An ION Micra for the top and bottom sash with a venting magnet is an option.
3. PIR Curtain - Never used thee but was looking at Visonic Clip-4N.  Still only alerts once someone enters the house, but they would only be partially in when the alarm went off and I think that would be okay
4. PE Beam - Never used these either, but I saw them mentioned on some similar posts here
5. Exterior Motion - My neighbors have at least 9 cats and I am a little worried about false alarms.  I will use exterior motion with lights for detterance, but I don't want to set off an alarm or wake us up for something exterior.
6. Alarm Screen (normal screen with wire embedded to setoff alarm) - I like this option as it seems to have a high WAF.  The window can be opened to any degree and if someone cuts or removes the screen the alarm goes off before anyone gets in.  I saw mention of them being ~$150 per screen in a post, but I don't know of a place to get them.  Suggestions?
7. Security Screen (stainless mesh you can take a baseball bat to)- This will deter someone from entering and not just sound the alarm, but I don't think we need this level of protection.  They are expensive, block more light/breeze, and aesthetically not my favorite since I only want extra protection on some windows.

Anything else I am missing?
 
I am in the south, so the windows are only opened for a few weeks/months a year so I don't want to spend too much per window.
 
Any recommendations?
 
 

 

[ano]

Remember, your goal is detect intruders while minimizing false alarms. A good way to do the later is with cross-zoning, which all panels are now required to support. Basically if a single motion detector goes off, another has to also go off within a set time (eg. 3 minutes) or no alarm.  If you have a motion detector in almost every room, there is no way anyone wouldn't trip two and possibly a door and window as well.  I DON'T use cross-zoning on doors and windows as false alarms shouldn't happen. For whatever reason, false alarms do happen to motion detectors.
 
Alarm screens are pretty expensive so decide if you really need those.  Are you protecting a house or $100M in gold bars?  That would be the deciding factor.  If you feel you want to spend more, spend it on more smoke and fire alarms, and maybe a CO sensor. If you have a gas or oil furnace in the attic or basement or closet, put a heat/RoR sensor in there.
 
"Security Screen"  LOL.  So they will just kick down your door.  I don't see the advantage. They will get in if they want to. 
 
I bet the number 1 reason that an alarm fails to go off when someone breaks in is that the alarm was never turned on. Work on solving that problem before you order the alarm screens.

 

[johngalt]

Thanks Ano.

I agree the benefits of a security screen are not something I need. The hurricane protection is a plus in my area, but I am not willing to pay for it.

I don't think the cross zoning idea will work for motions in my house. The non bedrooms are all open. So a trip to the kitchen will trigger both of the motion detectors immediately as I step into the open space.

I agree alarm screens are pretty expensive although the only figure I saw was $150 a screen. If I can get them for half of that then maybe. Wiring would also be a lot harder then a PIR curtain in the ceiling or wall.

Venting magnets with the Elk 6021 would be preffered if anyone has a recommendation of how. Switching to the ion micra would be easy and not too expensive, about $55 per window.

 

[ano]

Thanks Ano.

I don't think the cross zoning idea will work for motions in my house. The non bedrooms are all open. So a trip to the kitchen will trigger both of the motion detectors immediately as I step into the open space.

Cross zoning prevents false alarms, if multiple motion detectors go off, that is ideal, it means you have a real intruder.  That is what its designed for.  If you have very few motion detectors, or only one, it probably won't work for you.

 

[video321]

First and foremost... I can only make this suggestion... please don't leave a window open to a baby's room.
 
For added security, you do have options. My first would be to pin/lock the windows in a vented position and add a 2nd magnet to that spot as well.
 
I've received samples of security screens when I was considering it years back - there were different grades and shades. With the black (nylon?) you could only tell there was a security wire if you looked for it. The company I communicated with is Security Screens, Inc. The price was somewhere ~40/screen for wholesale pricing and a low cost shipping charge. They stated less than a week turnaround time.
 
PE beam would be my other option - a tall curtain. I've never used them, so I can't say if I'd use it as a full alarm or as a notification. Maybe chirp the siren and turn on the exterior lights. Perhaps someone that has used them may have more input.

 

[Del91574]

Cross zoning is a band-aid solution to a false alarm issue, which points to system design errors or environmental items that can't necessarily be addressed. Always has been. Only thing it's doing is providing more information from the days of installing 2 detectors in parallel or installing capacitors on the protective loops. Most panels will report the first zone that generates the cross zone pool as a trouble to a CS, followed by the alarm. Cross zoning shouldn't be used as a verification purpose to ensure you have an actual alarm.....it only provides more time that someone can be inside the house and a false trip being dismissed as just that.
 
PE beams are also not without fault, but it'd be just as costly and more difficult to adjust than installing a handful of security screens.
 
BTW- I used to manufacture security screens back in the day, first getting into the business. 15K screens+ in 3 years. We bought material from Security Screens Inc. Only 2 colors, charcoal and silver. The other variable is a no-see-um mesh, but that's very custom and makes it very dark. If you really want to do the screens right, if your frame can support it, get them slotted and install resistors in them. Hardwired is preferred for many reasons also.

 

[ano]

Anyone installing an alarm system should be aware of the CP-01 ANSI Standard, with the latest release out in 2014.
 
You can see a summery here: http://www.siaonline.org/SiteAssets/Standards/Intrusion%20Subcommittee/Why%20CP-01.pdf
 
Support for Cross Zoning has been in the standard since around 2006, and all Omni and ELK panels support it.  It was never created to be a "band aid"
 
So Del, if you have a variety of motion detectors scattered around your house as you would for motion control, plus door and window sensors, so how long do you believe cross zoning would slow a response?  Give us your best guess? 4 seconds?  6 seconds?  I bet 2 or 3 seconds would be typical. Besides if your door or window sensors catch them like they should, cross zoning wouldn't even apply.
 
About two months ago I was on a cruise when I checked my alarm panel's log. I saw one motion detector had tripped but no other. Because of cross zoning I didn't have a $100 false alarm fine waiting for me.  When I returned home I tracked down that a mirror had reflected the sun into a motion detector and when a drapery automatically closed at sunset, it tripped.  The sun had to be at the exact position to hit it. Don't believe that false alarms don't happen to the best designed systems?  Call your local police department and ask them. 

 

[Del91574]

Ano,
 
I've been in the trade for over 20 years, and industry for 25, so what would you like to discuss? I've been involved before those standards existed and implemented via SIA programming defaults (which was voluntary BTW, not law). If you'd like to discuss UL 8th? UL 9th? ANSI CP-01 and which extent or revision, let me know. I'm trade, not hobbyist and have seen and been involved with a lot more in my years in the field.
 
Cross zoning existed long before HAI and Elk and 2006. I've dealt with it back in the mid 90's with panels and without doing boring research, couldn't tell you the first gen panels that had it.
 
False alarms happen, which is why there is legislation in many areas, including 3 strikes, alarm registration and other items, AAV and other items. Part of the reason why muncipalities banned auto dialers and voice dialers, which I remember being installed on some systems, old Ademco tape dialers and the contemporaries. Hell, even some municipalities around here have their own CS receivers......I know because I've installed them and integrated to their dispatcher stations.
 
In your case, here's my example back to you:
I smash your first floor bedroom (or living room) window, enter and then grab whatever I choose to at that point and leave via the same route. Go nowhere else in your house. Is that an alarm or trouble with cross zoning? Did your CS dispatch on the trouble or not? Trouble by CP-01 and ECV (which is adopted by almost every commercial CS out there) would mean that a trouble condition is just that, not an alarm (exception is fire alarm). Courtesy call only. So would you dismiss that as an alarm or false then?
 
Cross zoning means you're not going to get an actual alarm until the second point in the cross zone pool trips. Depending on the panel and programming options, you might not even get a CS report for the trouble. Enough time, either the timer expires or a point not in that specific pool is triggered (if you go the whole-hog multiple cross zone pool route).
 
Scatter enough devices into the pool, in unrelated areas, you will cut down on false alarms, but your genuine alarm capture rate could also go down. It's something that needs to be considered and looked at before saying cross zoning is THE way to go, especially in a residence.
 
I would not recommend cross zoning an entire house's worth of detectors.....if you have that much of a FA problem, you're better off installing a pair of detectors per space protected by PIR and then cross zoning those pairs independently. If you have doors that don't close well or rattle in the wind (OHD's are notorious) then that's either a debounce adjustment or you look at cross zoning if there's points installed within the vicinity that would be tripped if the doors were actually opened and space violated.
 
Cross zoning was implemented to get away from the industry practice of installing detectors in parallel within a protected space or installing capacitors on protective loops to mitigate false alarms. It was intended to minimize false alarms, generally almost always after the fact of the system being installed. Same reason why there's double knock units and other add ons to existing systems besides simple cross zone pooling.

 

[ano]

In your case, here's my example back to you:
I smash your first floor bedroom (or living room) window, enter and then grab whatever I choose to at that point and leave via the same route. Go nowhere else in your house. Is that an alarm or trouble with cross zoning? Did your CS dispatch on the trouble or not? Trouble by CP-01 and ECV (which is adopted by almost every commercial CS out there) would mean that a trouble condition is just that, not an alarm (exception is fire alarm). Courtesy call only. So would you dismiss that as an alarm or false then?

Assuming someone breaks into one room and then just leaves (really) and assuming they didn't trip door or window sensors (which are regular parameter zones), then it looks like the bedroom glass-break was tripped, and the bedroom motion also. Ooops, looks like the police are on the way. With the sensitivity of most  glass-break sensors, it wouldn't surprise me if a second glass break in another room also was tripped. And if they actually try to go in the master bathroom where the real valuable jewelry is keep, this would be the 4th sensor tripped. All these sensors were tripped over a course of 10 seconds max. I definitely wouldn't use cross-zoning if I didn't have enough sensors to support it.
 
By the way, I don't think the Omni reports the first violation as trouble, but if a second violation occurs, it will report both of them.
 
"Cross zoning was implemented to get away from the industry practice of installing detectors in parallel within a protected space or installing capacitors on protective loops to mitigate false alarms."
 
You do realize that the cross-zoning time span is user set? Its not like two sensors need to trip EXACTLY the same time.  I use a 4 minute time, so two sensors within 4 minutes will do it. So unless I'm robbed by a sloth, I should be OK.

 

[Del91574]

Ano,
 
I've been involved with forensic investigations and testified on system failures, design criteria and functionality and been a SME for the last 10 years on top of still being actively involved within the trade, not a hobbyist. Facts aside, I've installed more hardware and manufacturers than you can name or consider.  I've seen what you say is "improbable" and have seen it quite often, frighteningly so. Good intentions to mitigate false alarms aside, there are reasons why some things should be used sparingly.
 
In an acoustically live environment, if you have more than a single GBD trip from an actual event, that would lead me to believe you have your sensitivity improperly adjusted. Large systems with multiple redundancies (<100 zones) on a residential system, not ONCE have I witnessed a system have multiple GBD's trip on a forced entry and actual alarm event.
 
Cross zoning a perimeter zone an interior zone immediately adjacent would be a safe pairing. An interior zone that can't be accessed without crossing another interior zone would be another application. Cross zoning an entire building's floor with each other is a poor application of the technology.
 
I don't happen to have an OP here to test the reporting at the moment, but what you report really wouldn't surprise me. HAI was always geared towards HA with security secondary, vs. say, Elk (2005ish). Before that, you really didn't see HAI out in the wild too often for security. The basic facts are out there, a $100 Vista reports more events than HAI does; Look at the CID reporting summaries.

Elk, DMP, DSC, and Honeywell provide the appropriate reports in sequence, assuming TROUBLE reporting is enabled. First zone on a cross is reported as a trouble, generally logged by the CS and automation at the CS, and then subsequent trip of the cross is the alarm. Designed this way for a reason. Allows accountability for alarms and logging purposes. If HAI reports the cross zone events only upon an alarm with the first item causing the cross, followed by the alarm on the cross, that would lead to very ambiguous methodology to attempt to determine what actually occurred, especially if any automation or CS items log the events out of order. Points towards a panel design not properly implemented in my head.
 
I do know cross zoning, and other items (double knock, debounce, grace, swinger, RT and other features) are user set within the realm of the panel's capabilities. Setting a long cross zone time as you alluded to on your system means I have a more opportune time to trip individual zones and stay in areas without a response. Basic facts.
 
To address your design criteria, assuming a full perimeter, with PIR and GBD's, Cross zoning should or would include the perimeter detectors and PIR/GBD's by default, so your MBR example, I'd cross the MBR protection together and only that room in the pool. No false alarms without being verified. If you wanted instant perimeter detection, then pull the contacts and have the GBD and PIR cross zoned for that room alone.
 
You can stomp your feet and say how well it works for you, but the truth is, you provided the means to defeat your own system by giving the length of time between cross zones trips. Same issues happen on large installs with "double knock" programming. Too long and you'll never generate an actual alarm.
 
Good day.
 
Design ideas with graphical representation: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiHl9mbiM3LAhXFwj4KHf9XCa4QFggvMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbuy.dmp.com%2Fdmp%2Fproducts%2Fdocuments%2FLT-2000.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGIllY0u3rQwcpfL8hdGcLOSRtgig