ALC Opinions?

[jlehnert]

The National Electrical Code does not say its O.K.

WRONG!

The NEC explicitly allows low voltage control wire inside the box if it meets certain conditions, the primary IIRC is that the LV wire inuslation is greater than the voltage present in the box. In practice that means the LV insulation is rated for 600 V or higher.
An inspector who is also a personal friend came across ALC on one of his inspections, and called me for information. I was able to get him the exact NEC reference to the subject. The info is no longer handy as it's been over two years, since then, but I bet that if you call OnQ, they will be glad to quote you the exact paragraph and section.

 

[Helheim]

Hopefully we should have some news on this shortly.

Any news yet? I wired my house with homerun cat 5 to some but not all of the switches and was planning on using ALC but it doesn’t seem to popular and if there is something better coming maybe I'll wait.

 

[Holt]

We need to install a lighting control system for a customer. It is new contruction so I am electing to go with a hardwired system so I don't get called everytime there is a quirk in a PLC or wireless system.

I've been researching the board quite a bit and I have a pretty good feeling regarding the pros and cons of the systems that homerun the romex for the lights to a central location (ie. Centralite, Vantage,...) and those that just require the normal romex path through the switch and then to the light (ie. ALC (OnQ), ...).

I am electing to go with ALC since I think it will be easier to convince the builder to have his electricians wire the house up the way they are used to.

Question: What ALC components do I need to work with an ELK M1 Gold?

I have the Elk M1 and the M1 serial port expander module (I assume I only need one for the ALC system). What ALC controller do I use? Where can I get it? How much does it cost?

Where can I find the switches? What do they cost?

Is this all I need:
- Elk M1 gold
- Elk serial port expander module
- ALC lighting control module?
- ALC switch per light controlled?

Thanks,

Holt

 

[ctay]

Holt, you may want to give EDT I-Line a chance too. I-Line is the same style of hardwire lighting control as ALC (meaning standard HV wiring with a LV control cable). I was looking pretty hard at the ALC system but have recently been very impressed with the EDT I-Line stuff. I had a hard time finding ALC components online, not because no one sells them, but because no one had ANYTHING in stock. I've been checking over the last 2 months and have yet to find anyone that had the relay switches in stock. That worries me quite a bit and when i combine this with the fact that they haven't (AFAIK) released new switches or dimmers in a couple years I start to worry that they aren't really supporting the ALC line anymore.

I emailed the I-line guys and got a response the next day. Price wise they are the same or cheaper and the functionality is basically the same. I'm not squarely in their camp yet but I am heading there...

Chris

 

[JayH]

I have been a big fan of ALC and as I remodeled my house I installed the control line and replaced switch boxes in order to support it. I'm not so sure anymore now that I have 20+ switches installed.

I emailed OnQ's Lighting product manager last week looking for some information on (1) Inline-modules such that I don't need a switch location, (2) replacement bezels (color schemes in rooms changed) and the rumor that there was a direct OnQ-Elk ALC interface. The opening line of the response said it all:

We really have not evolved the lighting control product family any further.

So while I'm not in a position to jump to another vendor - I would look very hard at all the components and decide if they provide everything you need. OnQ/ALC specifically doesn't have outlets (without requiring a switch) or inline modules for where you have large groups of controlled lights but want more elegant scene switches.

Jay

 

[ctay]

Jay, that really confirms my worries... I wish there were more companies that tried the traditional wiring with a control wire approach. I'm really looking close at I-Line stuff right now. The problem you would have and honestly what worries me a little about I-Line is that it is daisy chain ONLY. If you have home run wiring you will have to find a way around the daisy chain requirement...

Chris

 

[JayH]

Chris,

I haven't look at the I-Line yet so this may be completely off base but if they are using the standard 2-wire RS-485 loop there is a way around it. Straight from the Elk manuals...

Home-run each control modue to a central point but pick 2 pairs to use. Blue/White for the "To Module" and Orange/White as the "From Module". At the module you wire the pairs together with the control wires from the module, at the central wiring you connect the "controller" to the first blue/white pair then the orange/white from that pair to blue/white of the next pair. It isn't overly "neat" but is functional.

Jay

 

[ctay]

Thats a good idea! I'll email them and ask if that would work...

 

[sic0048]

That system should work if there are at least double the number of wires that are actually used in each pull. For example, if there is 1 cat5e cable homerun from each location, as long as the i-line products only use up to 4 of the 8 wires, then you should be able to connect them together. If it requires more than 4 of the wires (2 of the twisted pairs), then you are out of luck and will have to pull more wire.

 

[sky-chicken]

We need to install a lighting control system for a customer. ........

Question: What ALC components do I need to work with an ELK M1 Gold?

I have the Elk M1 and the M1 serial port expander module (I assume I only need one for the ALC system). What ALC controller do I use? Where can I get it? How much does it cost?

Where can I find the switches? What do they cost?

Is this all I need:
- Elk M1 gold
- Elk serial port expander module
- ALC lighting control module?
- ALC switch per light controlled?

Thanks,

Holt

All you need is the new Advanced Lighning Controller for ELK-M1.
It connects direct to the ELK-M1 bus with no need for an serial interface.
Great item...

 

[JayH]

Do you have information about this product/part number?

I asked OnQ directly and they said there was no such part - referred me to the normal lighting controller and serial interface.

 

[sky-chicken]

Do you have information about this product/part number?

I asked OnQ directly and they said there was no such part - referred me to the normal lighting controller and serial interface.

i have it installed and it works fine. It is basicly an 800 with ELK serial interface in one. You can get it from setnet. I was suprised that ELK did not know about it. Here the product link http://208.38.143.93/product.asp?0=0&1=0&3=1993

 

[Boomer]

I have the OnQ ALC interface for the M1G installed. The OnQ part number is 364864-01. As far as the M1G is concerned, the OnQ interface is seen as an M1XSP and is wired directly to the M1G data bus. The interface covers the first branch of ALC switches (1-31). An expander is available to cover ALC branches 2, 3 and 4. The OnQ part number for the expander is 364726-01.

The main interface is available now. Unfortunately, as of this post OnQ informed me the expander will not be available until about June. I have 60 some switches installed so right now I am only controlling about half of them with my M1G. I ordered the interface & expander through Worthington Distribution as they were the only vendor that seemed to have them available. The expander of course is backordered.

I also have the instruction manual for the OnQ ALC interface in .pdf if anyone would like it. It was slightly too big to attach to this post.

 

[sky-chicken]

Did you try Setnetpro.com ?? It looks like they have it in stock

 

[TerGuy]

Any opinions of On-Q ALC lighting would be appreciated as I am looking at this technology as an affordable hardwired lighting solution for a builder.

I know the pros and cons of wired vs. plc so no need on any opinions of that matter, but if a better alternative to ALC exists at about the same price please inform me.

I recently installed approx. 100 ALC switches in a home. I used the ELK/OnQ interface module and expander. I had trouble with both of these boards. The first expander board was a dud, the second (replacement) worked fine. The ELK/OnQ interface board was functional but had issues.....namely, if you were controlling the ALC switches remotely with a touchscreen (TSO7 in this case) there was no "feedback" being "polled" from the switches if/when they were being manually operated. Example, if I turned the switch "ON" remotely via the touchscreen, then someone who was at that same switch turned it "OFF" the touchscreen would not update that information. It remained unaware that the switch had been turned "OFF". The good folks at ELK (when made aware of the situation) wrote / upgraded the firmware for one of the chips on that board to correct that problem.
The ALC switches themselves are tedious to install. Butt splicing and shrink tubing 5 small gauge stranded wires to CAT 5 solid conductor is unpleasant. In addition to that there are the neutral, ground, hot and switch leg 120 VAC conductors to connect. Now multiply this times 3 or 4 in a 3 or 4 gang box with switches that are almost identical in size to a GFCI receptacle and you have the proverbial 10 lbs of stuff in a 5 lb bag.
In our situation electricians ran the romex and we wired the switches. Unfortunately when the "trim out" phase came, we discovered that when the swithes are powered up but turned "off" they indicate or measure 120 VAC if there is no "load" connected to them, so the breakers should be turned off to work with these switches. The electricians didn't catch on to that fact but discovered that overzealous "pushing" of the "off" portion of the rocker switch would "disconnect" (but unfortunately damage) the switch. Needless to say many of the switches were damaged.
Other than that pay attention to the distance limitiations on the Cat5 distribution branches and be wary of the "OnQ" branch hubs which seem a little fragile as we had several of these boards "give up" over the course of the installation as well.
Plan this installation well, read all the literature and have conversations with the OnQ Tech guys namely Ramirez or Brian. KNOW what you are getting into!