Aloha! New member here, lots of Zwave questions.

[ShawnHawaii]

Aloha everyone!
I am a new member here living in Hawaii and I have been interested in home automation for a long time now.

I just bought a older 1970's home and I am trying to put together a system using the AutoHTN android app and Vera as my "main" system. Each controlling a Z-wave outlet/switch. I need some help with item numbers/links and a way to put all of this together.

Question 1
The problem I am running into are these wall switches that are currently in the home that have 3 rockers on it.

On this single wall switch, one switch controls an outside porch light, one controls an interior ceiling light and one controls one(1) plug in a nearby wall outlet (I am assuming for a lamp or something)

My question is whats the best way to automate this for the Vera and AutoHTN Android App? Do I cut into the drywall and add 3 Zwave switches? or change the outlet to one controlled one and leave the switch always on? (but then this leaves me with the other 2 lights I cant control) To make it simple here is a rough idea:

One wall switch panel 3 rockers on it:
Switch 1: Outside porch light
Switch 2: Interior ceiling light
Switch 3: single outlet in wall. (wall outlet has 2, one is always powered and the 2nd one is powered by the switch) I want to use this to control a lamp and for the 2nd one to be always powered.

The problem is since the wall switch controls only one outlet which one do I replace for vera to communicate with? The plug or the switch? Or both? Does anyone make a zwave multi-switch for the wall?

Question 2:
I have a 2 car garage with genie garage door openers on them. What is the best kit to automate them with using the Vera and AutoHTN? Anyone try this and have an item number or link? I dont understand how it would hook up to my genie garage door opener. My searches only turn up Wayne-Dalton remote controls and I have a genie garage door opener.

Question 3:
I am going to be adding motorized shades to the home, should I get the AC powered one or the battery operated one if I want to integrate it into the system? I also dont know how this works, can the battery for the shade be linked up with a receiver for vera?

So for an overview:
AutoHTN Android App as control. (Does anyone know if I can have multiple rooms with the app running at the same time? i.e. cell phone and tablet/computer)
Vera as the "main" system
Z-wave plugs and switches

I am just running into compatibility and how to wire it up issues. Also any input on this setup would be appreciated.
A shopping list would be great too!!


Sorry for so many questions, I tried to do searches both online and here but there seems to be so many conflicting information about what will work and what wont. So I thought I just try to ask myself.

Any help you can provide will be appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Shawn :wub:

 

[wuench]

While it will work, realize that adding a home automation switch to a controlled outlet is unsafe (as well as against code) due to the fact that someone could plug in a device to the outlet that is beyond the switches rating. So if someone comes along and unplugs your lamp and plugs in a vacuum cleaner or space heater, it could blow the switch and/or start a fire.

I would recommend using a controlled outlet, they are usually rated for higher load.

 

[ShawnHawaii]

Thanks for the info wuench
So can you tell me how I would wire that up, since the switch controls the outlet? I replace the outlet with a controlled one, then what do I do with the wall switch? To me they seem to be a contradiction if I control both?

While it will work, realize that adding a home automation switch to a controlled outlet is unsafe (as well as against code) due to the fact that someone could plug in a device to the outlet that is beyond the switches rating. So if someone comes along and unplugs your lamp and plugs in a vacuum cleaner or space heater, it could blow the switch and/or start a fire.

I would recommend using a controlled outlet, they are usually rated for higher load.

 

[Steve]

You would just connect the wires in the switch box making it a 'permanent' outlet. You could leave a dummy switch, a blank plate or put a multibutton controller. You could also just leave it as is with a regular switch and just understand the outlet will only work with the switch on.

 

[ShawnHawaii]

Thanks Steve
I think I understand now, so you either replace the switch or the wall plug but not both in my case. But if I replace only the switch I will only be able to control the one wall outlet plug. Correct? If I make it a permanent outlet then I can put in a zwave wall outlet and control two items.

Do you know of any 3 rocker switch panels that uses Zwave? I cant seem to find any online.

Thanks for the help!
Shawn

You would just connect the wires in the switch box making it a 'permanent' outlet. You could leave a dummy switch, a blank plate or put a multibutton controller. You could also just leave it as is with a regular switch and just understand the outlet will only work with the switch on.

 

[Steve]

Well, usually a switch control only one half of the outlet, but there are ways around that too. But the main point here was to not have an automated switch control an outlet, that's the main danger. You could replace the switch with a relay switch ASSUMING it was rated at the full rating of the outlet, but never use a triac based dimming type switch. If the technology (Zwave in this case) makes an automated outlet then that is the safest bet. Sorry don't know much about the various ZWave products.

 

[ShawnHawaii]

Ok so I open the wall switch up and just bypass the switch and then turn the outlet into a zwave one I can control. Then with the other 2 light switches I can just put in zwave receiver switches. Does that pretty much sum it up?

Well, usually a switch control only one half of the outlet, but there are ways around that too. But the main point here was to not have an automated switch control an outlet, that's the main danger. You could replace the switch with a relay switch ASSUMING it was rated at the full rating of the outlet, but never use a triac based dimming type switch. If the technology (Zwave in this case) makes an automated outlet then that is the safest bet. Sorry don't know much about the various ZWave products.

 

[Steve]

Yep. Although like I said you don't HAVE to change your current switch, just understand if it is off then the automated outlet will not work/be powered. Keeping it (leaving it alone) may just be easier. The other thing as you mentioned is control of 1 outlet. There is a tab on the sides of the outlet that bridge the top and bottom outlets together. Typical your line and neutral will either just run to either the top or bottom (the last outlet on a run) or line in will come in one side and go out the other side to feed additional outlets. With the switch control the tab between the top and bottom is cut so the 2 outlets are independent. So, you will likely still have a separate line in going to the non switch controlled half and a separate, usually red or some other color line going to the other half. Bottom line is there are two sources of power coming into the outlet. So - if you change it to an automated outlet and want it to work as a single outlet (top and bottom together) then the best thing is probably to use the 'full time' line in the box on the outlet. Then you will essentially disable the switch which you can do at either location. You can disconnect the switch and cap the leads which would make that red or alternate wire inactive or you could leave the switch or tie the wires together there and cap the red wire in the outlet box. The key is to know there are two sources of power into the switch. I hope that didn't confuse you.

 

[ShawnHawaii]

Thanks Steve for such an informative explanation! Of all the forums I signed up on this is the only one that has been so helpful. :wub:

I am just thinking of putting in a one controlled wall outlet on that wall:
http://www.zwaveproducts.com/HomeSettings-...RECEPTACLE.html

Then just hard wiring the switch so that its always on. I dont think it will hurt resale later on as I think most people who use a outlet want it always on all the time anyway, and if they plug in a floor lamp they just use the floor lamp switch. (I think that was the original purpose of wiring the one outlet to a switch was to control lamps and such) Then I can control just one item from the wall outlet and assign it to Vera. (i.e. Living room outlet light)

The other two switches control hardwired lights (porch and entry lights) so I guess I would cut another hole in the wall and mount 2 Zwave wall switches to control those. Will these work:
http://www.zwaveproducts.com/ZWAVE-WALL-SW...ion-Switch.html

Do you think that solution will work and is the best way to go about it?

Thanks again Steve!
Shawn

Yep. Although like I said you don't HAVE to change your current switch, just understand if it is off then the automated outlet will not work/be powered. Keeping it (leaving it alone) may just be easier. The other thing as you mentioned is control of 1 outlet. There is a tab on the sides of the outlet that bridge the top and bottom outlets together. Typical your line and neutral will either just run to either the top or bottom (the last outlet on a run) or line in will come in one side and go out the other side to feed additional outlets. With the switch control the tab between the top and bottom is cut so the 2 outlets are independent. So, you will likely still have a separate line in going to the non switch controlled half and a separate, usually red or some other color line going to the other half. Bottom line is there are two sources of power coming into the outlet. So - if you change it to an automated outlet and want it to work as a single outlet (top and bottom together) then the best thing is probably to use the 'full time' line in the box on the outlet. Then you will essentially disable the switch which you can do at either location. You can disconnect the switch and cap the leads which would make that red or alternate wire inactive or you could leave the switch or tie the wires together there and cap the red wire in the outlet box. The key is to know there are two sources of power into the switch. I hope that didn't confuse you.

 

[Steve]

NO - be careful. The Zwave outlet doesn't work like that. Even though only one half is controlled, it is still wired with a single line in like a regular switch. If you tie the switch wires together you need to cap the red (or whatever line from the switch) and not use it. The easiest thing to do is probably just to totally leave the switch alone and just cap the wire at the outlet - why mess in the switch box if there is no value. But I would probably put some sort of keypad in that switch box so it is functional.

Ok, I got confused and had to go back and read the first post again. So, you have a 3 gang box with 3 switches? Why do you need to cut more holes and stuff? Just replace the 2 regular switches with the 2 Zwave switches (porch and entry) although that switch you linked won't work. That's a slave switch intended for a 3 way circuit, you need a regular full switch. The 3rd gang position you can put a multibutton keypad or leave alone as described.

 

[ShawnHawaii]

Thanks for the help Steve. The switch looks like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xk1...catalogId=10053

Top switch controls a outside porch light
Middle switch controls ONE outlet of nearby wall outlet like this: http://www.cox.com/support/images/cable/unplug.jpg
Bottom switch controls an interior recessed light like this: http://www.builderssquare.com/images/bg/Un...ecessedPuck.jpg

I cant find any zwave switches with the 3 like the first link. What is the best way to do this? I am thinking I need to cut 2 more holes in the wall for 2 more zwave light switches? If so which ones will I need?

NO - be careful. The Zwave outlet doesn't work like that. Even though only one half is controlled, it is still wired with a single line in like a regular switch. If you tie the switch wires together you need to cap the red (or whatever line from the switch) and not use it. The easiest thing to do is probably just to totally leave the switch alone and just cap the wire at the outlet - why mess in the switch box if there is no value. But I would probably put some sort of keypad in that switch box so it is functional.

Ok, I got confused and had to go back and read the first post again. So, you have a 3 gang box with 3 switches? Why do you need to cut more holes and stuff? Just replace the 2 regular switches with the 2 Zwave switches (porch and entry) although that switch you linked won't work. That's a slave switch intended for a 3 way circuit, you need a regular full switch. The 3rd gang position you can put a multibutton keypad or leave alone as described.

 

[Steve]

Ok, it helps if you actually read a post slowly. You were perfectly clear, I just read the 'highlights' and lost the details. So... Now I realize by a Zwave multiswitch you were referring to a Zwave version of your 3 rocker, not a ZWave keypad like a was mentioning. Typically we call those a dual load switch and I did not see one for ZWave in a quick search but maybe someone with more ZWave knowledge knows one (or perhaps Dan saw one coning out at Cedia). There is a dual load switch for UPB.

If there were a dual load switch that would be perfect. Short of that you would have to change your single gang box to a dual gang box. You would connect each light to a separate ZWave switch and just cap the wires for the outlet (assuming you are putting the separate ZWave switch).

 

[ShawnHawaii]

Thanks Steve
So I will need to cut into the drywall and put 3 receiver Z wave switches in the wall if I want to control all 3 things. (porch light, wall socket and interior light). I want to control the wall outlet switch with Vera also. Is this setup Correct? Do you know off hand which switches I will need? Can just put 3 of these in and assign each one to Vera?:

http://www.zwaveproducts.com/ZWAVE-WALL-SW...ion-Switch.html

Thanks again Steve for all your help, I emailed several companies that carry Zwave and either got no response or they didnt understand the situation, so your input really helps.

Shawn

Ok, it helps if you actually read a post slowly. You were perfectly clear, I just read the 'highlights' and lost the details. So... Now I realize by a Zwave multiswitch you were referring to a Zwave version of your 3 rocker, not a ZWave keypad like a was mentioning. Typically we call those a dual load switch and I did not see one for ZWave in a quick search but maybe someone with more ZWave knowledge knows one (or perhaps Dan saw one coning out at Cedia). There is a dual load switch for UPB.

If there were a dual load switch that would be perfect. Short of that you would have to change your single gang box to a dual gang box. You would connect each light to a separate ZWave switch and just cap the wires for the outlet (assuming you are putting the separate ZWave switch).

 

[Steve]

Well, I don't know much about ZWave so hopefully somebody more knowledgeable about all the available products will jump in, but as I said earlier, that link is to a companion/slave switch which is used to control a 'master' switch in a 3-way circuit. The master switch has the components to control a load, the companion only toggles the master and cannot control a load itself.

So, here is an example of a regular dimmer switch like you would need to control the lights.

As for the outlet, you can't have it controlled by Zwave AND manually at the same time. So, if you put in a Zwave outlet like linked above, then you can only control it from Vera or another Zwave source. Another Zwave source for manual control would be a keypad like I mentioned, aka a scene controller like this. The scence controller just sends out a Zwave signal to other device to control them. If you wanted 2 separate Zwave switches and a scene controller then yes you would need a three gang box. There may be in-line modules available that you can mount by the lights or outlet and in that case you can just put a single scene switch to replace your 3 button rocker. But I'm not sure about ZWave inline modules or if you'll have the room to install them by your fixtures.

 

[nick_l]

Then just hard wiring the switch so that its always on. I dont think it will hurt resale later on as I think most people who use a outlet want it always on all the time anyway, and if they plug in a floor lamp they just use the floor lamp switch. (I think that was the original purpose of wiring the one outlet to a switch was to control lamps and such) Then I can control just one item from the wall outlet and assign it to Vera. (i.e. Living room outlet light

Just realize that this might also be against code. Code dictates that certain rooms must have EITHER a central ceiling fixture or a switched outlet that can be controlled from the entry point(s) of the room so that it is not necessary to walk into a dark room and possibly injure yourself looking for a light.

Your best bet is to contact someone locally to determine if this is the case in your particular situation.