Anyone know of an ELK Installer in Atlanta area?

The only distribution change I am aware of is problems with some distributors that do not follow the MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) guidelines.

ELK does not have direct access to dealer installers. The product line is sold through distributors, not directly from ELK. Therefore no dealer, installer base is maintained other than an opt-in email data base for product announcements. The best way to find an installer in an area is to contact the field rep for that area. The reps have direct contact with dealer/installers.
 
The only distribution change I am aware of is problems with some distributors that do not follow the MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) guidelines.

ELK does not have direct access to dealer installers. The product line is sold through distributors, not directly from ELK. Therefore no dealer, installer base is maintained other than an opt-in email data base for product announcements. The best way to find an installer in an area is to contact the field rep for that area. The reps have direct contact with dealer/installers.


I follow the MAP Pricing based on what I was told by ELK employees. Well I was told to pack up and leave because I do not fit the new business model of brick and mortar with 9 to 5 support. If you think about it that is not what the DIY wants. They do not want to take a day off from work to troubleshoot a problem over the phone. They would rather do it in the evening or weekend when they normally work on their system. That is probably why some people buy from me and not Spytown and others who are cheaper (and violates MAP if you do a search for ELK on their site) and really does not provide support from what I heard. I even provide support to people who bought elsewhere who cant get the evening or weekend support from the big guys (granted I am hoping the buy from me next time). I have customers who have made more than 10 purchases of ELK products from me in the past 6 to 9 months for thousands of dollars and seem to be very happy.

Also what is ELK's definition of "brick and mortar"? You can not go there and buy over the counter. Spytown address is a suite in a professional building and if you go there and knock on the door you are lucky to find someone (I tried a few times since it is 2 blocks from UL in Melville NY and I am there all of the time). I bought my first panel from SmarthomeUSA here on Long Island about 5 years ago. I called them and asked them if they stocked ELK products and they said yes and I got directions. An hour later I was there and handed them a list of about 20 items and they had none so they drop shipped from ELK. I at least stock what I can and add to it all of the time otherwise I drop ship from master distributors like I am supposed to. Only once did I ask ELK to drop ship for me as it was an urgent request and I could not find the items with any master distributor. Otherwise I put in large orders to ELK to ship to me to add to my stock (I bought out another distributors stock or partially did as well).

So if I followed the rules as told to me why was I told to get of dodge? What about the couple of pro installers I supply (granted only a few so far). I told your CS staff in writing many times I am more than happy to comply with any changes in rules etc all they have to do is ask. You have a great company, great products, and great staff. I put a lot of time and money into promoting your products yet I get told to leave. What about the master distributors out there who sell to retail customers are they being told to leave or just to comply with the rules and not told to fold up shop?

What did I do wrong as nobody as ELK ever asked me to change anything once I became an authorized dealer. I even asked a few times for one of your CS staff to double check me if they wanted to. I run an honest business and want to keep it that way just ask your CS staff they will tell you I am more than willing to follow the rules as long as they are applied equally (which is what ELK seems to be trying to do).
 
Sparky,

I'm confused - I filled in this form (ELK dealer request) which clearly indicates a way to get information on a dealer in my area to match up with my chosen interest (new security system). Is this page old and therefore unused/unmonitored now?

Thanks,
Mark
 
That sucks. Brick and mortar stores are fine and dandy for keeping prices high because there is less competition, and maintaining control over who is getting your product. Here's the problem, that's NOT what people want. Any company who isn't embracing the internet for marketing/sales/support, when that's what their customers are asking for is doomed to fail. And, if you're cutting out the little guy from selling your products and relying on big distributors/resellers.... You're putting all of your eggs in a few very large baskets. What happens if any of those distributors/resellers decide to purge some things from their product line?

I work in the Network Architecture/Security industry. One of my vendors, who has been around for over 10 years, used to have a policy that you could not become a reseller unless you kept $1 million worth of inventory. The industry has seen a LOT of small consulting companies pop up over the past few years, and many of these companies were unable to become resellers because they couldn't afford to buy $1 mil worth of inventory. So, instead of recommending this vendor's products, they instead recommended products from a competitor. A couple of years ago, the vendor realized that what they were doing was KILLING their business. You had a ton of startup and small companies hiring consultants recommending the competitor's products, and when those companies grew, they would end up buying more of the competitor's product. They have since done away with their $1 mil inventory requirement. In fact, there is NO inventory requirement anymore, they will drop ship directly to the client. You just fill out a form, have at least one engineer that has been certified on their products, and you're ready to go. Now, they are putting the hurt on their competitors.

So, there are a couple of questions here. Obviously, what is the ratio of distribution for sales of the products through big resellers, small resellers, and websites catering to the DIY guys? The other question that companies completely forget to ask is, how do the DIY sales and the small reseller sales drive sales in general? Does the sale of my products through a certain smaller group of people generate a buzz? If I'm not making a ton of money off a particular group of people, are they still useful to me as a marketing tool?

It's been 10 years since I worked in the advertising/marketing industry, and I used to perform data correlation analysis for marketing purposes to find out the answers to questions similar to what I posted above, running on huge Sun Enterprise servers with multi-TB databases full of raw data. A multi-TB database in 1999 was HUGE.

Anyway, the point is, that sucks. Whatever the reasoning behind it, I'm sure we'll never find out. I suspect that this decision was either a knee-jerk reaction to cost cutting, or something that was recommended by a "consultant" without any data to back up the recommendation.

For the record, I love my ELK system, and I love that they will answer my quick tech support questions. I just wish they would some more technical information on their site so I wouldn't have to send them an email every once in awhile. And, from a sales/marketing standpoint, they need some professional web design. Two of my friends based their opinion of their products off of the website look alone, and I can tell you that it wasn't a positive opinion. Of course, once they actually saw the system in action, they changed their minds.
 
I think Elk's point is that they should not be supporting someone like you the end user directly. The distributor that sold you the system should be providing the support and I have to agree with that. Part of the responsibility of an authorized retail distributor is to support the end user (the customer should contact them first). Elk is very customer oriented and will answer the customers questions but that is a significant drain on their resources the more popular the product gets.

I dont disagree with Elk wanting the retail distributors supporting the end users. I just dont think it has to be 9 to 5 necessarily. Most of the calls and emails I get for support come after hours. To be honest I have had some people tell me they are surprised that they ask a question on a Saturday or Sunday and it gets answered that day. Or that they can have someone walk them through troubleshooting a problem in the early evening when they get home. That is all geared to the DIY market and that is what retail is. The Pro installer is allowed to contact ELK directly for support and since they work 9 to 5 that works also.

I think there is a place for everyone willing to follow the rules. Hopefully Elk will agree.
 
I think Elk's point is that they should not be supporting someone like you the end user directly. The distributor that sold you the system should be providing the support and I have to agree with that. Part of the responsibility of an authorized retail distributor is to support the end user (the customer should contact them first). Elk is very customer oriented and will answer the customers questions but that is a significant drain on their resources the more popular the product gets.

I dont disagree with Elk wanting the retail distributors supporting the end users. I just dont think it has to be 9 to 5 necessarily. Most of the calls and emails I get for support come after hours. To be honest I have had some people tell me they are surprised that they ask a question on a Saturday or Sunday and it gets answered that day. Or that they can have someone walk them through troubleshooting a problem in the early evening when they get home. That is all geared to the DIY market and that is what retail is. The Pro installer is allowed to contact ELK directly for support and since they work 9 to 5 that works also.

I think there is a place for everyone willing to follow the rules. Hopefully Elk will agree.

I'm fine with calling the vendor that I purchased my equipment from. As with most people though, I'd prefer to talk to the manufacturer of said equipment because they are going to have more in depth knowledge of it. If ELK is trying to get out of directly supporting end users, they are going about it the wrong way by cutting off people like you. You are providing support for the products, and you're following their rules. I probably send ELK an email every 2-3 weeks. How many other people do this? The only person that ever answers my questions is Brad, so I assume he's swamped with hundreds of requests per day, and they are probably all duplicate questions. I can imagine that 99% of his email time is spend copying and pasting from questions he answered previously. It makes sense for them to push off support to their resellers. The problem is, you have a bunch of sites selling their equipment that don't know anything about it, so those people that buy from those resellers would be out of luck for support issues except for posting to forums like this.

If all of the documentation was posted online, or if ALL questions were posted into a ticketing system that was publicly searchable with resolutions for the issues, then they would dramatically reduce the amount of manual overhead for support, both for themselves, and for the resellers that provide support. I know I'd rather read docs or search a ticketing system to find an answer than to have to wait for an email response or call someone.
 
I did some research into Diggers issues because he is a friend and long time ELK supporter.

Most of the security and automation industry's primary support is through the professional installer/integrator. One business model is where equipment is sold from the manufacturer through authorized distributors to the professional installer/integrator to the end user.

Some manufacturers, including Elk, has allowed authorized distributors to advertise product on Internet websites that are open to the general public. These distributors must hold inventory, be a full time business, accept warranty returns, and offer telephone technical assistance to their customers during regulator work hours among other requirements. Installer/integrator account passwords must be used to show website pricing that is less than MAP (minimum advertised pricing). It is up to the distributor to determine who their Installer/integrator customers are.

Some distributors have chosen to make special price concessions to Cocoontech members. That is not a problem, but advertising there price to the whole world through the Internet undermines the professional installer/integrator that makes his living installing and servicing equipment to the end user.

The sleeping giant was aroused from being prodded from many different directions and I am truly sorry that Digger got caught up in the reaction.
 
Spanky,

I have no problem following MAP pricing. Currently I am following the rules as they were told to me by ELK staff. If you need to tweak the MAP rules thats fine (and I understand why and agree with why) and I will gladly follow them if someone will tell me what the changes are. I can adjust my website to have a Pro section as well as a consumer section since I do sell to a few Pro's (hopefully more soon). I have no problem limiting sales to my site and direct sales since ebay and amazon sales are practically non existent lately and the fees are getting outrageous. I would just need a couple of days probably to get everything adjusted.

If someone from ELK can contact me letting me know if everything will be ok and what the new rules are that would be appreciated. If its not going to be ok I think people need to know that I will be permitted to continue honoring the warranty for any past purchases by my customers and for any stock I have on hand. Right now I know of two customers from Cocoontech that have said they were about to buy from me but have decided to wait and see what happens.

I appreciate your time especially during such a busy week. Hopefully the show will be busy for you.
 
I think Elk's point is that they should not be supporting someone like you the end user directly. The distributor that sold you the system should be providing the support and I have to agree with that. Part of the responsibility of an authorized retail distributor is to support the end user (the customer should contact them first). Elk is very customer oriented and will answer the customers questions but that is a significant drain on their resources the more popular the product gets.

I dont disagree with Elk wanting the retail distributors supporting the end users. I just dont think it has to be 9 to 5 necessarily. Most of the calls and emails I get for support come after hours. To be honest I have had some people tell me they are surprised that they ask a question on a Saturday or Sunday and it gets answered that day. Or that they can have someone walk them through troubleshooting a problem in the early evening when they get home. That is all geared to the DIY market and that is what retail is. The Pro installer is allowed to contact ELK directly for support and since they work 9 to 5 that works also.

I think there is a place for everyone willing to follow the rules. Hopefully Elk will agree.

I'm fine with calling the vendor that I purchased my equipment from. As with most people though, I'd prefer to talk to the manufacturer of said equipment because they are going to have more in depth knowledge of it. If ELK is trying to get out of directly supporting end users, they are going about it the wrong way by cutting off people like you. You are providing support for the products, and you're following their rules. I probably send ELK an email every 2-3 weeks. How many other people do this? The only person that ever answers my questions is Brad, so I assume he's swamped with hundreds of requests per day, and they are probably all duplicate questions. I can imagine that 99% of his email time is spend copying and pasting from questions he answered previously. It makes sense for them to push off support to their resellers. The problem is, you have a bunch of sites selling their equipment that don't know anything about it, so those people that buy from those resellers would be out of luck for support issues except for posting to forums like this.

If all of the documentation was posted online, or if ALL questions were posted into a ticketing system that was publicly searchable with resolutions for the issues, then they would dramatically reduce the amount of manual overhead for support, both for themselves, and for the resellers that provide support. I know I'd rather read docs or search a ticketing system to find an answer than to have to wait for an email response or call someone.


If your vendor cant answer your questions they can get the answer from Elk. The vendor acting as a filter would minimize the work load of Brad and others in ELK Tech Support. I personally had to call him twice this year for questions I could not answer (one was for a replacement part I needed to get out to a customer the same day).

I am sure you are right that they answer the same questions day in and day out but that should not be. The retail distributor is making money on their sales and needs to do their fair share of the support. It is not fair to any mfg for all of the support to be provided by them.

I personally hate to go to a specialist doctor that is only 9 to 5. I have to lose half a day at work etc. I prefer doctors and dentists that have evening hours etc. I think the same holds true for retail customers of products like this.
 
I am starting to get the feeling I been screwed royally as I am not getting any official response from ELK even by those still in the office. I have until Tuesday to clear out my ELK stock but can not violate the MAP pricing since I am still authorized. Once I am no longer authorized I can not advertise on the net. No way I can get rid of $6k or so of stock by Tuesday.

I will let people know where the dumpster is on Wednesday so they can go dumpster diving for ELK Products for whatever the local installers dont want.

I am VERY pissed off as I trusted ELK when they made me an authorized distributor and said I was required to maintain stock that I would not be left hanging like this. Especially since I followed the rules while others who did not will still be allowed to sell ELK if they are brick and mortar stores.
 
Well no straight answers from ELK if they will allow me to honor the warranty on what I have sold. They seem to be more hell bent on putting me out of business then answer that question yet they cant tell me why they want me out of business other than they changed their business plan to sell only to companies with large buildings and fancy websites so get lost.

Spanky I am sorry but I have to say I am very disappointed in the direction you are taking the company (if it is even you). I invested a lot of time and money to promote your products and to dump me (and supposedly others) when I have not done anything wrong (according to your staff) and with no warning is just unfair.

Yet I see no action being taken to stop companies who are not following the rules (at least the rules as they were explained to me by your staff). I followed the rules exactly the way your staff explained them (and told them if anything changes let me know), and see others who are not, yet ELK is very anxious to get rid of me and not those hurting ELK. Why do you continue to sell to retail distributors at trade distributor prices so they can undersell everyone else and hurt the pro installers as well? They are the ones hurting ELK not the guys trying to add to your customer base in an honest way. I have demonstrated the ELK system and sold it to many people who never heard of it (you need people promoting your products). Heck I have sold one customer an ELK panel for each of his rental houses after demonstrating my system with eKeypad. That is what will grow your business people who actually take the time to promote your products not just have them on their website for someone who knows about it to find.

Why are you doing this to me? Because I am not "brick and mortar"? If you were not putting me out of business I would be "brick and mortar" once the economy starts to pick up just a little and I can take the risk of leasing a store front. I was laid off for literally about the 10th time this year today (you can ask your buddies that work with me from your days at ADT but they were laid off today also so wait a few days to call them as they should be back shortly as will I since we are all working on the same project). My business was created to eventually not have to live with that headache of the uncertainty of the job market. Effectively you are dumping someone who could be a significant asset to you someday.

Thank you very much ELK for your support for someone who supported you.
 
Still no answer from ELK about how I can honor the warranty for any sales I have made as an authorized distributor (that question is constantly ignored). I will have to maintain stock of a few of every model I ever sold just in case.

Also ELK originally stated that I was being dropped for not being brick and mortar and having traditional hours for tech support. I offered to try and resolve both issues and that is also being ignored by ELK.

For the record ELK I am working out a partnership with a local licensed installer I currently supply ELK and other brands. If we can hammer out a partnership I (we) will be both brick and mortar (not over the counter sales though for now) and also have traditional and non traditional tech support hours (exceeding the requirements you stated were the reason for wanting to drop me and others). Granted we will not have a warehouse the size of a football field or anything.

So was that the real reason or not?

For the record the people at ELK are extremely nice and all but the few responses I get (granted they are very busy with cleaning house) are extremely vague and just say I did nothing wrong but I and others dont fit in anymore with the direction ELK has chosen. It almost seems (not stating a fact) that the real reason they want to drop some distributors is that some of us cater to the DIY customer which I am guessing by their responses is not in their new "business model". Again the answers are so vague I cant be sure what is going on.

Or and it sounds like the big trade distributors who are violating the pricing policy to put the retail distributors our of business are being "asked" to clean up their act and given a second chance. To bad the guys who followed the rules are not allowed to stay in business.
 
.....It almost seems (not stating a fact) that the real reason they want to drop some distributors is that some of us cater to the DIY customer which I am guessing by their responses is not in their new "business model". Again the answers are so vague I cant be sure what is going on.

That is an odd twist of fate. HAI which has been historically DIY unfriendly has stepped up and really embraced the DIY community lately. Now ELK, which has been historically very DIY friendly, is potentially trying to get out of the DIY arena. Granted, I'm sure the DIY market is a miniscule fraction of overall sales, but it is still sad to see as a DIYer.
 
If what Digger is saying is true that Elk is having its moment of truth, then DIY will be left dealing with unfriendly/uncompetitive master distributors. I tried calling ADI and asked if I could purchase Elk products. I was flatly told, “Not unless you are a professional installer.â€

I too tried to find some Elk installers in Atlanta. I was quoted crazy prices – like I owned some sort of luxury home. Another installer I talked with would not quote me a price because it was “refurb†that required moving around crawl space.

I absolutely refused to install an ADT or Brinks system. I have visited many houses where the control keypad is just a decoration. My friends/family just stopped using big company alarms because of false alarms, high service fees, and deficient customer service.

For example, my fiancé had a simple battery problem. For four days, we had to listen to ding-dongs coming from the panel. The service representative was nice and all, but he had to call the service center in order to get instructions on how to reset a zone trouble alert.

I have invested a considerable amount of time and money to educate myself on Elk operation and products. I will be extremely upset if I cannot maintain and enhance my system. I picked Elk because if I was going to shimmy around a musty unsafe craw space, I was going to at least have a decent security and home automation system.

I have received excellent service from Elk (Brad Weeks), and I hope that Elk will not abandon a core group of customers. Early adopters are critical for any technology product. I have already “sold†an ElkM1G to a friend after he saw the system’s capabilities. He purchased system online. I have a large number of technically savvy friends that might get a case of, “iPhone that’s Cool where can I Buy One,†syndrome. Actually, Elk can take a lesson from Apple here. Beside Apple’s wonderfully engineered products, Apple has a cult-like following of loyal/passionate customers.

Sorry, I don’t really want to start a big soap-box message. I have spent well north of $1800 to build my own system. I don’t want it flushed down the drain because installers are unhappy about being undercut (i.e., change in marketing direction). Channel conflict is normal part of the technology lifecycle. The key is figuring out how to manage growth while not putting your entire product’s destiny in the hands of one segment only.
 
As confusing as ELK's actions might be, I was just assured that ELK is not abandoning DIY, so I don't think we have to worry about that just yet.
 
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