Anyone using Next Alarm with a HAI C3 as backup?

[stustep]

Hello Everyone,
I have been lurking here reading posts for a long time, but this is my first time posting. I don't want to start a debate about Next Alarm vs. Alarm Relay. That has been done already. My question is this: Is anyone using Next Alarm with their ABN and using a HAI C3 as backup to the ABN / Internet in the event the line supplying the internet has been cut? I am currently using an Elk M1 with Ooma VOIP and a DSL connection. I have doubts about whether the ABN will actually release and allow the M1 to switch to the HAI C3 in the event of a line cut or internet failure. Is anyone successfully using the C3 as backup and an ABN?

 

[stustep]

My thoughts are that the ABN emulates POTS to the security system. The HAI C3 emulates POTS to the security system when the POTS actually goes down. So, if the ABN is plugged into the C3 and the the C3 is plugged into the alarm system; one would think that if the internet went down, the ABN would stop emulating to the C3. The C3 would think the POTS has gone down and switch to GSM. Make sense? or that just wishful thinking?

 

[WayneW]

I cannot answer your question directly, but I can give you a sinking feeling... When my Vonage service or broadband internet service fails, my Elk M1 does NOT report a telco fault as the Vonage box still provides whatever the Elk is expecting. If the Vonage box fails (ie UPS batteries dead), then the Elk will get a telco fault. Other routers may work differently. The Vonage router is kinda nice because if the broadband connection is down and somebody tries to make a call, they get a recording from the router rather than no dialtone.

 

[ysualum]

From my experience I was not able to get it to work. The C3 would constantly use the SIM card instead of sending it through the ABN. When I would remove the SIM card, then it would utilize the ABN. I had checked all connections and HAI couldn't help troubleshoot and said it could only be used with a true POTS line. I ended up returning it

 

[apostolakisl]

I am using the HAI C3 as my only connection to the alarm monitoring service. It works perfectly. I do not have a pots line plugged into the C3 nor Voip nor anything so there is no concern about it switching over in the event that the other line fails.

If you have a voip and the internet goes down, I think it still gives you a dialtone.. .right. If it does, then the c3 wouldn't have any way of knowing to switch and the Elk would not detect any line trouble either. You would just get failed connection only in the event that it alarmed, but it still wouldn't be able to try any other connection.

If your cellular signal drops, I don't think the C3 dialtone drops, so again, I think the Elk would be unaware. The thing is, the C3 has a big antenna and a powerful transmitter so it always registers full strength. It also has a built in battery.

 

[stustep]

Ok. Thanks to everyone for the input. Based on the comments, I ordered the HAI C3 and plan to use it alone as my communication. I have ordered a Tmobile Sim Card activation kit for $6.99. I will then do the $100 refill card which will get me 1000 minutes, good for a year. I will most likely use Alarm Relay for reliability and have to skip Next Alarm's Technology. I just can't risk my DSL line being cut and not having a way for the Elk to dial out. My DSL line is very exposed. Even if they were not able to cut it at the house, they could just walk a hundred feet and cut it where it runs down the pole. Without a POTS line, I think this will be the most reliable setup for my needs.

 

[apostolakisl]

Ok. Thanks to everyone for the input. Based on the comments, I ordered the HAI C3 and plan to use it alone as my communication. I have ordered a Tmobile Sim Card activation kit for $6.99. I will then do the $100 refill card which will get me 1000 minutes, good for a year. I will most likely use Alarm Relay for reliability and have to skip Next Alarm's Technology. I just can't risk my DSL line being cut and not having a way for the Elk to dial out. My DSL line is very exposed. Even if they were not able to cut it at the house, they could just walk a hundred feet and cut it where it runs down the pole. Without a POTS line, I think this will be the most reliable setup for my needs.

I think you will be satisfied with your setup. You will never use all 1000 minutes so you should be set. Basically, you are paying an extra $8.00 per month to have a nearly impossible to defeat communication setup. If Next Alarm gives you any trouble, Watch Light has worked perfectly for me and don't care that it is a cellular com.

 

[stustep]

I think you will be satisfied with your setup. You will never use all 1000 minutes so you should be set. Basically, you are paying an extra $8.00 per month to have a nearly impossible to defeat communication setup. If Next Alarm gives you any trouble, Watch Light has worked perfectly for me and don't care that it is a cellular com.

UPDATE 05/16/2011
I have setup my system with (Elk M1 Gold with HAI C3) a T-mobile SIM card. I signed up with Next Alarm. My system made three calls out to Next Alarm and seemed to be working while using the Contact ID format. I then got a failure to communicate error. I have not had a successful call out to NextAlarm since then while using the contact id format. I switched the format to SIA and the system is communicating fine. I contacted NextAlarm and was basically told that the HAI C3 was the problem. They could not explain why it worked fine using SIA but would not work using Contact ID. Again it was blamed on the HAI C3 so I asked them to explain why my first three calls were successful and then it suddenly stopped working and they had no explaination. NextAlarm suggested I contact HAI or Elk and that they were unable to help me. So my point is this, if anyone else is using this setup and is hoping to use contact ID with NextAlarm then forget it. If there is anyone out there using this setup (HAI C3, Nextalarm & Contact ID) please let me know. Otherwise, I guess I will be ditching NextAlarm and trying Watchlight/Alarm Relay. Lou Apo are you using Contact ID with watchlight or are you using SIA?

 

[apostolakisl]

UPDATE 05/16/2011
I have setup my system with (Elk M1 Gold with HAI C3) a T-mobile SIM card. I signed up with Next Alarm. My system made three calls out to Next Alarm and seemed to be working while using the Contact ID format. I then got a failure to communicate error. I have not had a successful call out to NextAlarm since then while using the contact id format. I switched the format to SIA and the system is communicating fine. I contacted NextAlarm and was basically told that the HAI C3 was the problem. They could not explain why it worked fine using SIA but would not work using Contact ID. Again it was blamed on the HAI C3 so I asked them to explain why my first three calls were successful and then it suddenly stopped working and they had no explaination. NextAlarm suggested I contact HAI or Elk and that they were unable to help me. So my point is this, if anyone else is using this setup and is hoping to use contact ID with NextAlarm then forget it. If there is anyone out there using this setup (HAI C3, Nextalarm & Contact ID) please let me know. Otherwise, I guess I will be ditching NextAlarm and trying Watchlight/Alarm Relay. Lou Apo are you using Contact ID with watchlight or are you using SIA?

I am using contact ID. I have now had this up an running 13 months (just got my bill for year 2 last month.) I am using ATT for my GSM, however I was planning on switching to T-mobile. You have me wondering if I should do that. ????? I wonder if T-mobile could have changed something? It seems like if your hardware is the same and next alarm didn't change, that only leaves T-mobile. I have no probs with watchlight, just had a false alarm last month that got as far as them calling the police and they handled it very well. They were able to stop the dispatch before the cops got there.

 

[Ira]

What are "contact ID" and "SIA"?

 

[apostolakisl]

SIA uses an FSK, or Frequency Shift Keying method, as opposed to Contact ID, which sends DTMF tone pulses (regular touch tone signals). SIA and CID itself are the protocols describing what the various beeps and squaks mean(ie panic, motion, etc), there are like 200 of them. Wikipedia describes frequency shift keying and dtmf tones pretty well.

I can tell you that when I use my HAI to make regular calls and I get a touch tone automatic attendant, some systems don't hear the button presses and other systems do. It may be that Next Alarm has more than one "answering system" and that some of them aren't as good at picking up the touch tone signals through the HAI. So if one happened to pick up your call one time and another the next time, it might work one time and not the next. As I mentioned, I have never had a failure to communicate from my panel. It does a monthly call in and it seems like we have about one false alarm per month.

 

[stustep]

I did not get much help from NextAlarm on this issue. They wanted to blame the HAI C3 as the problem or either the Elk M1 panel. I suspected the problem was on NextAlarm's end and I was correct. In the frustration, I cancelled with NextAlarm. I contacted Watchlight / Alarm Relay. I must say there is a huge difference in professionalism. I got to talk to real live people who answered my questions and who were knowledgeable about the Elk M1. They told me there would be no issue using the HAI C3. Alarm Relay is a little more expensive on the front end because of the $35 setup fee. However, this was worth it in that they called me and scheduled a time for the tech to call and make sure everything was programmed correctly. The next day, the tech called promptly at the scheduled time and we had the system programmed and functioning properly in less than twenty minutes. I used up over 300 minutes in trying to get my system to work properly with NextAlarm. I used less than 5 minutes of airtime in setting up with Alarm Relay and the system is functioning using the Contact ID format. Really the only difference in the programming was the phone number and account number but the tech wanted to go through everything to make sure it was all correct. So I am happy with my present setup which is the Elk M1 Gold, HAI C3 cellular communicator with at T-Mobile Sim Card, and Alarm Relay. In addition, this system, in my opinion, is going going to be very reliable and undefeatable. The bad guys can cut anything they want outside be it power, dsl, phone, etc and they still can't defeat it. Even if they break in, they can't get to the panel or HAI C3 quick enough to defeat the system. I just have to remember now to buy some minutes every year so they don't expire or run out. $20-$50 worth of minutes should be more than enough.

 

[apostolakisl]

Good to hear. I should have had you give them my name, I would have gotten $25! Darn.

I hope you continue to have a good experience with watchlight. I would feel bad if things went south.

I did just set up a friend's system with them and I had a fine customer service experience again. I put a very boring DSC system in his place. The Watchlight guys dialed into that system and set it up themselves. My M1 they walked me through with me doing the programming.

I am just about 100% that next alarm has more than one receiver answering calls with some of them not as good at picking up touch tone over the cellular lines.