Are security cam microphones worthwhile?

[NeverDie]

I received a new security cam today.  It's PoE, which is what I was expecting.  However, what I wasn't expecting were a couple extra wired connections: one for its microphone, and another for an "alarm".  The documentation isn't very good, so I'm not even sure what the "alarm" connection actually does. 
 
I'm not sure what to do with the microphone connection that it's offering up.  In some ways it's a bonus, because I hadn't even planned on it being part of the package.  Is there much point to it?  I would have preferred that any audio would have been digitized and integrated into the Ethernet video stream.  It would have been tidier then, but all that's now moot because I guess that's not how it was designed.  I'm inclined to just ignore it, but as this is my first outdoor surveillance cam, I thought I'd solicit suggestions/recommendations from those who've already been down this road before me.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

IP cameras with microphones that support RTSP or MPEG may include the audio in the video stream. You will also have to consider potential conflicts with federal, state and local wiretaping laws depending on placement of the camera itself.

The alarm connection is likely a motion detection output or an input to trigger panning/recording you can connect to a security system. It would help if we knew the make and model camera.

 

[NeverDie]

 It would help if we knew the make and model camera.

 
Here's the box tag with that info:

 
Here's the datasheet:  http://www.hikvision.com/UploadFile/image/2014060306115862717.pdf

 

[NeverDie]

Here's a picture of the camera and its connectors:
 

 

[NeverDie]

Here's a closeup of the connector for alarm and audio:
 

 

[Del91574]

IP cameras with microphones that support RTSP or MPEG may include the audio in the video stream. You will also have to consider potential conflicts with federal, state and local wiretaping laws depending on placement of the camera itself. The alarm connection is likely a motion detection output or an input to trigger panning/recording you can connect to a security system. It would help if we knew the make and model camera.

This is gospel.
 
The alarm connection is usually connected to an input on a DVR or NVR to change the recording FPS/image to higher in the case the recording unit is on the more "dumb" side. Typically never seen connected in 99% of all professional applications.
 
The audio portion is something I wouldn't monkey with. Too much liability to really be usable in many applications. If there's an expectation of privacy, that means legally they can't be used, even if you put up signage in many cases. Many lawyers have made a lot of money on these sorts of issues.
 
Here's some links from a vendor we use often: http://www.louroe.com/support/audio-the-law-in-your-area/

 

[NeverDie]

On a different topic relating to this camera:  as noted on the datasheet, it comes with a micro-SD slot that can accommodate up to 64GB.  Is it worthwhile?  I was planning to continuously record the H.264 stream onto hard disks, but I haven't thought very hard about it just yet.

 

[NeverDie]

This is gospel.
 
The alarm connection is usually connected to an input on a DVR or NVR to change the recording FPS/image to higher in the case the recording unit is on the more "dumb" side. Typically never seen connected in 99% of all professional applications.
 
The audio portion is something I wouldn't monkey with. Too much liability to really be usable in many applications. If there's an expectation of privacy, that means legally they can't be used, even if you put up signage in many cases. Many lawyers have made a lot of money on these sorts of issues.
 
Here's some links from a vendor we use often: http://www.louroe.com/support/audio-the-law-in-your-area/

 
Wow, this is news to me.   :huh:   Thanks for the heads up.  You mean I can't record outdoor audio taken in the yard in front of my own house?  
 
What about recording the video?  Is that even allowed?  Do I need to put up signs warning that there is video surveilance?  Or is it just the audio that's problematic?

 

[Del91574]

Audio recording is the larger issue. There was a huge lawsuit about 5-10 years back with some importers of chinese cameras (think of a name with "circuit") and their cameras having microphones on them. You also need to know the laws in your state and what constitutes consent or not, in addition to signage and other items.....and have a good lawyer on retention should something come up. Even though you're saying audio "in front of my own house" that is still considered public space, even though you may own it. There's a good reason that many of the cameras made and sold within the US market do not have mics in them or they're completely disabled via the firmware/software.
 
Video surveilance on your own property is one thing, however if the recording faces another property and you can view into space where normal expectation of privacy is present, that's where issues arise. It's a fine line if you're in a tight subdevelopment and it's possible to have the image "spill over". That's why cameras and software generally offer privacy masking or similar options.
 
Say you live in a subdevelopment tract and you have a camera looking out on your driveway and it also looks through your neighbor's picture window or french door into their bedroom...that's an issue. If you're only looking at your property and what would be normally considered as "public" space, that's not an issue.

 

[NeverDie]

Is the audio separated out using this primitive connector rather than integrated into the videostream over ethernet so that you can easily just ignore it and not hook it up, so as not to run afoul of the law?   I'm still trying to wrap my head around this.

 

[NeverDie]

While we're on the topic, what about recording vehicle traffic (or possibly even license plate numbers on said vehicles) on the public street that's at the end of my driveway?  Is that another minefield too?

 

[Del91574]

If it's not connected, then nothing to worry about.
 
Video of a location where there is no expectation of privacy is not the issue. If you were aiming cameras at neighborhood houses and could see into their windows...well I'd say you're going to need to look into the privacy masking aspects of the cameras or software if you really want to be 100% covered.

 

[bucko]

Another practical use of the alarm out on the cam is using it as a motion detector. You can use it as a zone on your security panel, set up as a motion sensor.
For example, If my front door zone is violated, my cam moves to a preset where the cam moves to look at the door to see who is entering. Also if the cam see motion, it turns on outside lights. 
 
You can also do this stuff via DV software like Blue Iris.
 
The US regs on mic use and cam position is such BS. Here, I have and use mics to record sound AND can these recordings legally in court for my own purposes. I do not have to inform anyone that they are being recorded. I can record phone conversations or anything, anywhere I want and use it as legal evidence in court. My cams can look and record whatever I want them to do, short of doing something like putting a cam in a toilet or on someone else's property without their permission.
 
I do not recommend you set up a cam to record 24/7. Total waste of storage, not to mention the fact it is impossible to search through countless hours of nothing to find an event. Set up cams to record on motion detection, otherwise they should be in monitor mode only.

 

[Del91574]

You NEVER want to use the alarm output of a camera as an initiating device on a burglar alarm panel. Starting another event or automation task is one thing, but for purposes of monitoring or reporting, especially for the purposes of alarm supervision will always prove to be problematic.
 
There's plenty of reasons why the audio portion is an issue without getting into the political differences between the US and China, not to mention legal differences.....dare I mention copyright and trademarks...they don't enforce those, let alone privacy and eavestropping laws.
 
I disagree about recording 24/7....if done properly, a camera can be set to record 24/7 and be usable. I have an enterprise site with over 700 IP cameras (24 NVR's X 32 cams each and growing). What needs to be done is considering the areas of motion, masking off blocks that would be troublesome, planning enough % of the image to cause the unit to have an event on motion. Background recording at a basic FPS and resolution and then kick up both on an event is commonplace. There's a lot of events that get missed by recording on motion only...especially at the fringe of the FOV or at distance.

 

[drvnbysound]

Here is a decent article from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) regarding the expectation of privacy:
 
https://www.fletc.gov/training/programs/legal-division/podcasts/4th-amendment-roadmap-podcasts/4th-amendment-transcripts/reasonable-expectation-of-privacy-part-1.html
 
Note that the article linked above is part one. You can find part two via the tree on the left.