CT Droid
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[Articles] ZigBee 101
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mustangcoupe
Senior Member
ano, thank you for writing this it looks like it is going to open up a realm of things once this all goes mainstream into production.
Will the Home Automation Profile, Telecom Profile be able to talk to the Smart energy profile and vise versa?
Will the Home Automation Profile, Telecom Profile be able to talk to the Smart energy profile and vise versa?
RArbour
Member
Todd,
Currently there are a few issues with HA profile talking directly to the SE profile. These issues involve security since HA and SE devices uses a different type of security. SE devices come preloaded with a specific key, where HA devices do not. So if you already have a SE network in your house setup by your utility company, buying a generic HA device from "Bob's devices", will not be able to fully communicate with the SE network. There are a few features in the SE profile that is considered unsecured and some devices may broadcast these attributes to anyone who wants to listen (ie current price of kWh). So you may be able to buy a magnet from Home Depot in the future, that will just display the price but does not actually join the network.
To solve the HA and SE merger, you really have to have an application level bridge on a device designed to specifically do that (will join both networks). I could be wrong but I have yet to see a device available that can do that. There may be a way in the future to accomplish this, but I do not see an immediate solution as of right now.
Now this is not to be confused with a device that can run both profiles at once. As long as all devices run the same type security it should not be a problem. So you can effectively run an HA type device with SE security. This way you can control the thermostat's settings (HA profile stuff), from an in home display if they are part of the same SE network.
Ryan
Yes that is how I believe it also. ZigBee can be thought of just like Ethernet. You plug a network camera into Ethernet, the Ethernet knows nothing about how to talk to that camera, but if a profile described the functions of a camera, then you would know how to talk to it. Now lets say you also plug in an IP phone to the Ethernet. Now you need a different profile that describes how to communicate with that IP phone. Can a computer, that knows how to communicate with an network camera and how to communicate with an IP phone speak to both? Sure. But will the IP Phone talk to the Network Camera? Probably not because they talk different languages.
Ryan brings up a good point, that Smart Energy devices will likely have encryption enabled in many cases, but I do think utilities also want to provide for a way for people to monitor their energy use, but its completely up to then if they do it.
I DON'T believe you need a bridge for two profiles to communicate, because I'm guessing that could be done on software you run on your PC. A home automation program could be the bridge. I do, however, see a real good place for a bridge. Lets say you want your PC to turn on your family room TV. You could have a bridge by your TV talking maybe to a nearby lightswitch on one end, and maybe your TV, receiver, DVD, etc. using RF4CE on the other side. This could let a PC connected to a lightswitch by ZigBee control your TV. Or even your ZigBee cell phone could control your TV. There are lots of possibilities here.
Why ZigBee over Z-Wave? I'm a do it yourselfer and have been watching Z-Wave, and dabbling in a few devices here, just waiting to jump in. But, I don'nt want to jump in with Z-Wave if ZigBee is going to the be standard/rage. So, my question is what is the present status between Z-Wave and ZigBee and what does the future hold? I want to ride the horse, but don't know which one to get on. Help?
hucker
Active Member
Exciting stuff, I hope it all pans out!
The article states that all remotes will shortly switch over to ZigBee but when I look at the 5 standard profiles I don't see something that looks like Device Remote or some such thing. Does the remote control functionality fall under one of the 5?
The article states that all remotes will shortly switch over to ZigBee but when I look at the 5 standard profiles I don't see something that looks like Device Remote or some such thing. Does the remote control functionality fall under one of the 5?
hucker
Active Member
I got the part about the IR replacement but was confused by the fact that it it appears to only be point to point like and old IR remote. If the remotes don't fall within one of the big 5, will they be able to be part of the system and be controlled/monitored by higher level applications? I suppose I was guessing that there would be something that looked like a standard TV/DVD Player/Tuner (AV Profile) that could eaisily be accessed via a ZigBee network.
That is a good question, because ZigBee and Z-Wave are often confused. First, ZigBee and Z-Wave, while they seem similar, they aren't. I don't know the full story, but my guess is that Zensys, the company that created Z-Wave had intended to use ZigBee early on (I don't know this for a fact) but because the ZigBee standard was open, and there were many stakeholders, the ZigBee standard was moving along slower than Zensys hoped. Like all companies needed revenue, couldn't wait for ZigBee, so it created the Z-Wave spec so that it could start selling products.
Zensys has done a good job at getting Z-Wave off the ground, and there are a few other companies also supporting Z-Wave, and there is a good bunch of Z-Wave products out there, but Z-Wave has a rather limited scope, which is a requirement since only a few companies are involved.
Zensys designed Z-Wave in a relatively short time, which is what a single company can do. ZigBee has been much slower, because you have hundreds of companies involved. Its like a pebble vs. a bolder. Its pretty hard to get that bolder going, but once it starts moving watch out.
Short-term ZigBee is not a threat to Zensys, and they will keep chugging along, but they got to be watching ZigBee in their rearview mirror. The UPB folks have to be watching it as well.
The best part of ZigBee, is that the more companies competing in a technology, the cheaper the technology becomes. Currently ZigBee switches at $100 can't compete with $50 Z-Wave, but then again, ZigBee switches are just appearing.
You have to decide your goals, and if Z-Wave will meet them for the next few years. It's even possible that a "bridge" could be built to allow ZigBee and Z-Wave systems to work as one. Z-Wave has the risk, like just about any technology, that one day it might disappear.
Here is how I understood things worked.
ZigBee has been chugging along for years as a low power mesh network aimed at industrial automation, home automation, meter reading, etc. Completely independent of that Sony, Philips, and a whole bunch of these type companies started getting together to find a solution on how they could replace IR with a radio. It just so happens that Freescale was working on manufacturing ZigBee radios in the millions, and it was looking for ways to further sales of it's ZigBee radios.
So the plan was, While full ZigBee has mesh networking, its also a technology that could work great in remote, and if you stripped out the expensive ZigBee mesh stuff, you could use just the ZigBee radio in the remote application. ZigBee proposed it to Sony and others and they liked the idea. Freescale formed this RF4CE Consortium to work out the details, and they released the RF4CE specs. Later, the Consortium broke-up, and it moved under the ZigBee Alliance umbrella.
So FR4CE uses the full radio, but it doesn't support mesh networking, or all that other stuff. Its NOT a public profile that sits on the ZigBee Feature Set (or Pro Feature Set), rather it just uses the ZigBee radio. So the RF4CE remote, and RF4CE TV can co-exist in a ZigBee house. Can ZigBee HA talk to RF4CE? Maybe. Its still being worked out, but it might be possible for your PC to communicate with your light switch, then the light switch to turn on a nearby RF4CE. Maybe you'll need some hardware called a "bridge" to translate between your light switch which speaks ZigBee HA, and your TV which speaks RF4CE. Its still a work in progress, as I understand it, but it is a goal.
Yeah, Sony and a few of the others have actually been selling ZigBee "type" remotes for a while now. Sony introduced them in 2007.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_...0070830/138473/
The RF4CE standard was just approved a few months ago, and RF4CE "rides" on the ZigBee radio, so your remote from Sony will also work on your CD player from Panasonic.
Note that none of the companies are using the RF4CE name. They all have their own names for RF remotes.
According to the ZigBee Alliance, there are now 24 ZigBee HomeAutomation Certified products.
http://www.zigbee.org/Products/CertifiedPr...55/Default.aspx
They are still rather expensive and sometimes specialized, but things are headed in the right direction.
http://www.zigbee.org/Products/CertifiedPr...55/Default.aspx
They are still rather expensive and sometimes specialized, but things are headed in the right direction.
